/\/\onster sized Canister or Sump ?

[HarleyK]

Howdy,

I am curious who here has a "canister filter" that outsizes an Eheim 2262? I have only come across the Ultima (HERE) , but would like some real-life long-term experience. neoprodigy you set up a 600 gal with an Ultima II 6000 over a decade ago. Any thoughts? Please remind me what pump you used with it?

Anyone else? Other massive canister makes/models that are worth mentioning?
Pros/Cons?

Need to combine with other filtration to polish the water, or are these monsters an all-in-one?

Thanks!
HarleyK

 

[HarleyK]

Let me bump this thread, it landed flat when I posted it a few years ago…

Seriously, I’m wondering about tank maintenance with a sump and would appreciate members’ thoughts.

A canister nicely sucks up debris from the bottom, while a sump works with an overflow. Does everyone here with a sump vacuum their tanks religiously? Sounds laborious. How else do you get rid of fish poop?

Those of you with a monster canister: How much work is it to clean that? My Eheim 2262s are already a big job to clean, I wonder if bigger is exponentially harder or actually easy?

thanks
HarleyK

 

[duanes]

The problem I have with cans that suck stuff up from the bottom, and hold it in the filter, is because whatever is in the can, its still in the tank.
And to me, it's not the stuff you see that's the problem, it's the chemical stuff you can't see that matters.
This is why overflows skimming off the surface can be very effective, if cleaned out, frequently enough, removing that deleterious stuff, from the water column..

The surface (air water interface) contains more deleterious stuff than the substrate.
Sure, turds laying on the gravel look bad, but they are "not" as bad as the semi invisible stuff layering upon layering on the surface.

This is one of the reasons canister companies are developing separate skimmer components.
They are finally realizing holding detritus in the can for extended periods, is not doing the aquarium, any favors

To test this, turn off all surface agitation (air stones, HOB filters, etc) and see what quickly appears on the surface.
It's usually a white, or oily thin slick, that blocks gas exchange, and if left unchecked, will kill your fish much faster than any detritus laying on the substrate.

I hardly ever vacuum, mostly because I plant heavily, and the detritus eventually becomes plant food.
I do however, do lots of water changes to mitigate elevated nitrate which also inhibits a fishes ability to process oxygen.

I know in much aquarium literature that a nitrate level of 20ppm or higher is considered acceptable, but the reality of tests I do in nature show undetectable nitrate levels.
In the last month or so, I have tested nitrate levels in 3 Panamanian rivers, none of these have presented any detectable nitrate.
Collection in eastern Panama.

 

[Backfromthedead]

With bare bottom, about 8x-10x turnover through sump and plenty of active bottom dwelling fish to stir up detritus, it seems i avoid the need to vacuum entirely.

Fine particulate gunk does gather at the bottom of my sump. Once monthly i simply pick up all the mesh media bags and shake them about while im draining out the sump for a wc and that seems to keep the sump very clean by my standards.

I left cans behind when i switched to sumps primarily due to ease of maintenance. But to be fair, i only ever used fx6 with no prefilter. I feel like if i had a couple of those nice big eheims with some sort of prefiltered intake i could rig a nice canister setup.

 

[pacu mom]

spiff44 runs two Ultima II 4,000s on his 1700 gallon tank.

Tank resealing w/no silicon at all- 1700 Gallons

Silicon is just too much trouble... redid this tank with Sanitred only. You can see how it bonds straight to the windows. Sanitred makes a primer specifically for this, its harder to peel off that silicon on acrylic. Both water and air pumps relocated upstairs... not the ideal configuration...

www.monsterfishkeepers.com

Others on MFK have had to add more mechanical filtration, but I wonder if their Ultimas were too small. With just turning a valve to purge the Ultima, maintenance cannot be any easier. Purging uses a lot of water, and clear check valves are recommended so you can monitor the water coming out of the Ultima during purging. I would think Ultimas work best on big tanks with big water volume. Purging the Ultima by dumping out water for a water change - killing two birds with one stone - how much better can it get....

My big tank has been on hold for six years, but am about to resume work on the tank. I really love the idea of the Ultimas, but will be using two Ultima II 4,000s for primary biological filtration. One of them will be returning water from the redundant filtration sump back to the main tank. The other will draw and return to the big tank. I was introduced to RTL spa filters by a man who sets up and maintains saltwater tanks for businesses. I see them used in big reef systems, but only know of one other MFK member who uses them. I love RTLs and am not willing to give them up. While we run two RTL-25s on our 300 gallon tank, we will be running six RTL-100s on the big tank for primary mechanical filtration.

We have a bare floor tank, and extending the mechanical uptakes to just off the floor has been wonderful. There has been no debris to vaccum in the last 17 years. We call them poop suckers. Would not consider running a tank without poop sucker pipes. Poop suckers will be the only "decoration" in my undecorated, bare floor tank. Others have extended their mechanical uptakes to just off the floor of their tank and also had very positive results.

Here are the eleven pipes that were going into the big tank, except I have to make a few more. I made a pipe for a high uptake (what was I thinking, when it needs to be low to draw enough water to purge the Ultima, so will be making a few more poop suckers in the next few months)



The absolute beauty of poop suckers, is that they can be utilized to drain the tank during water changes. We have a pipe running under the house and onto the patio. Opening the valve drains the tank. Tank maintenance is not my thing. I want to open and close valves to do water changes.

 

[aussieman57]

spiff44 runs two Ultima II 4,000s on his 1700 gallon tank.

Tank resealing w/no silicon at all- 1700 Gallons

Silicon is just too much trouble... redid this tank with Sanitred only. You can see how it bonds straight to the windows. Sanitred makes a primer specifically for this, its harder to peel off that silicon on acrylic. Both water and air pumps relocated upstairs... not the ideal configuration...

www.monsterfishkeepers.com

Others on MFK have had to add more mechanical filtration, but I wonder if their Ultimas were too small. With just turning a valve to purge the Ultima, maintenance cannot be any easier. Purging uses a lot of water, and clear check valves are recommended so you can monitor the water coming out of the Ultima during purging. I would think Ultimas work best on big tanks with big water volume. Purging the Ultima by dumping out water for a water change - killing two birds with one stone - how much better can it get....

My big tank has been on hold for six years, but am about to resume work on the tank. I really love the idea of the Ultimas, but will be using two Ultima II 4,000s for primary biological filtration. One of them will be returning water from the redundant filtration sump back to the main tank. The other will draw and return to the big tank. I was introduced to RTL spa filters by a man who sets up and maintains saltwater tanks for businesses. I see them used in big reef systems, but only know of one other MFK member who uses them. I love RTLs and am not willing to give them up. While we run two RTL-25s on our 300 gallon tank, we will be running six RTL-100s on the big tank for primary mechanical filtration.

We have a bare floor tank, and extending the mechanical uptakes to just off the floor has been wonderful. There has been no debris to vaccum in the last 17 years. We call them poop suckers. Would not consider running a tank without poop sucker pipes. Poop suckers will be the only "decoration" in my undecorated, bare floor tank. Others have extended their mechanical uptakes to just off the floor of their tank and also had very positive results.

Here are the eleven pipes that were going into the big tank, except I have to make a few more. I made a pipe for a high uptake (what was I thinking, when it needs to be low to draw enough water to purge the Ultima, so will be making a few more poop suckers in the next few months)
View attachment 1515531


The absolute beauty of poop suckers, is that they can be utilized to drain the tank during water changes. We have a pipe running under the house and onto the patio. Opening the valve drains the tank. Tank maintenance is not my thing. I want to open and close valves to do water changes.

Interesting. How do you make those "poop suckers"?

 

[Midwater]

Fine particulate gunk does gather at the bottom of my sump. Once monthly i simply pick up all the mesh media bags and shake them about while im draining out the sump for a wc and that seems to keep the sump very clean by my standards.

Once monthly? I do that every couple of years (if I remember). Are you sure all that gunk does not contain significant amount of beneficial bacteria?

 

[pacu mom]

Interesting. How do you make those "poop suckers"?

You can just extend any pipe to just off the floor of the tank. In the little tank, we painted the white PVC pipe with black Krylon Fusion. I learned a big "trade secret" from a major tank builder who had a TV show. Polygem Zoopoxy.

Zoopoxy - Polygem

<p>Polygem is dedicated to providing environmentally safe, non-toxic epoxy zoo mix products for the creation of naturalistic artificial environments of extraordinary realism, functionality and breath-taking beauty. Zoopoxy products can be utilized to create special effects for movies and TV...

polygem.com

I used wire mesh, then pond foam and then Polygem Zoopoxy.




Poop suckers before painting


We also used Pond Foam/Polygem on foam sheets for our backgrounds


I did things the hard way. Check out Jrt's beautiful builds using Polygem Zoopoxy. I could have slapped the Polygem right on the PVC and be done, instead of using Pond Foam, etc., etc.,

Tank builds and projects!

1100 gallon reef tank with 3/4 inch plate glass. Tank measures 10 by 4 by 4. Also has a 300 gallon acrylic sump 73 by 31 by 31 with refuge on top! Sent from my iPhone using MonsterAquariaNetwork app

www.monsterfishkeepers.com

 

[HarleyK]

Brilliant, pacu mom

 

[aussieman57]

You can just extend any pipe to just off the floor of the tank. In the little tank, we painted the white PVC pipe with black Krylon Fusion. I learned a big "trade secret" from a major tank builder who had a TV show. Polygem Zoopoxy.

Zoopoxy - Polygem

<p>Polygem is dedicated to providing environmentally safe, non-toxic epoxy zoo mix products for the creation of naturalistic artificial environments of extraordinary realism, functionality and breath-taking beauty. Zoopoxy products can be utilized to create special effects for movies and TV...

polygem.com

I used wire mesh, then pond foam and then Polygem Zoopoxy.
View attachment 1515533
View attachment 1515534


Poop suckers before painting
View attachment 1515536

We also used Pond Foam/Polygem on foam sheets for our backgrounds
View attachment 1515539

I did things the hard way. Check out Jrt's beautiful builds using Polygem Zoopoxy. I could have slapped the Polygem right on the PVC and be done, instead of using Pond Foam, etc., etc.,

Tank builds and projects!

1100 gallon reef tank with 3/4 inch plate glass. Tank measures 10 by 4 by 4. Also has a 300 gallon acrylic sump 73 by 31 by 31 with refuge on top! Sent from my iPhone using MonsterAquariaNetwork app

www.monsterfishkeepers.com

Thanks for the info.