Onward to [Gar Study] Part II...

[E_americanus]

No rush on mine; I'm just very excited, that's all! I'm picking up some aragonite sand and a water hardness test kit today in preparation for its arrival.

that reminds me, i will put together some basic info to send to you guys about maintaining the fish...not that you couldn't find that online here, but i can give the specifics for these specific fish. pretty basic actually, and there is only maybe a handful of aragonite sand in each of the tanks. haven't tested hardness, but you may want to based on specific local water conditions.

Wow, that is a lot of Cuban gars in one place especially considering the fact that few zoos and aquariums have one if they're lucky!

yeah, other than the gars on display at Richard's work, which is associated with the (unfortunately) now-closed Belle Isle Aquarium, i don't know of any other public displays that have Cuban gars here in the US.

that being said, and given the current studies, it does make southeastern Michigan kind of the epicenter of CBGs in the US, haha--

Hmm... Now what's unusual about this new specimen?

it was unusual in that our LFS doesn't get big gars in that often, and i really had to stare at this one for a while to figure out what it was...it was about 16-18" long, snout not as long as a LNG, longer than FLG, spotting was weird (that's what threw me off the most) as it was greenish. in the end i am figuring it is an oddly patterned SNG, but either way we may be able to use it in our studies this summer (always on the lookout for large, potentially mature gars from here on out).--
--solomon

 

[koltsixx]

Loving your Cuban study. They're so rare in the states and seeing juveniles is particularly cool(sorry no better word for it. ). I'd love to get my hands on one of them. When your studies done and those Cuban's become to many mouths to feed you can always count on me to help, by taking one off your hands that is . Just let me know in advance so I can start saving up for one. I'd hate to have to sell my first born in a mad rush to get the money up to obtain one.

 

[Wiggles92]

that reminds me, i will put together some basic info to send to you guys about maintaining the fish...not that you couldn't find that online here, but i can give the specifics for these specific fish. pretty basic actually, and there is only maybe a handful of aragonite sand in each of the tanks. haven't tested hardness, but you may want to based on specific local water conditions.

Okay, sounds good. I've read the gar care guide on Cuban gars many times over now which is how I came to the conclusion that aragonite would be a smart choice for at least part of the substrate. As for water hardness, I'll definitely have to test that because I believe that my water is a wee bit on the soft side, but I believe that the water hardener corrects that; we have the "luck" of having soft water rather than overly hard water like many people do. Luckily, I have supplements for the saltwater aquarium that could probably be used to help with the hardness and calcium levels if need be.

yeah, other than the gars on display at Richard's work, which is associated with the (unfortunately) now-closed Belle Isle Aquarium, i don't know of any other public displays that have Cuban gars here in the US.

that being said, and given the current studies, it does make southeastern Michigan kind of the epicenter of CBGs in the US, haha--

Aww, that's a shame that it closed. It's pretty cool that Michigan is the epicenter of CBGs.

it was unusual in that our LFS doesn't get big gars in that often, and i really had to stare at this one for a while to figure out what it was...it was about 16-18" long, snout not as long as a LNG, longer than FLG, spotting was weird (that's what threw me off the most) as it was greenish. in the end i am figuring it is an oddly patterned SNG, but either way we may be able to use it in our studies this summer (always on the lookout for large, potentially mature gars from here on out).--
--solomon

Sounds like a cool gar; I look forward to pictures of it.

I wish finding big gars was a problem rather than finding gars in LFS's period...

 

[E_americanus]

Okay, sounds good. I've read the gar care guide on Cuban gars many times over now which is how I came to the conclusion that aragonite would be a smart choice for at least part of the substrate. As for water hardness, I'll definitely have to test that because I believe that my water is a wee bit on the soft side, but I believe that the water hardener corrects that; we have the "luck" of having soft water rather than overly hard water like many people do. Luckily, I have supplements for the saltwater aquarium that could probably be used to help with the hardness and calcium levels if need be.

well that is a good start, the gar care guide has generally good info to get going with the various species - it's my fault with some of it as i have been meaning to go through it with edits for some time now...i keep telling myself "after the dissertation is done".

that being said, that aragonite issue was something myself and a couple others came up with way back in the day, particularly since i was keeping Cubans since 2004 (long before the guide). the water hardness is not something i monitor nor do i think it's a major issue. but water supplies differ from place to place. i think if you have a buffered system and maintain consistent water conditions you will be fine.

a lot of what we know about CBG sensitivity (unfortunately) came from my early experiences and (also unfortunately) killing multiple adult CBGs. i'd have broodstock right now if i knew all the current stuff back then (but no one else was keeping them here).

in short, stable pH, usually maintained with crushed coral, and you'll be fine.

Aww, that's a shame that it closed. It's pretty cool that Michigan is the epicenter of CBGs.

yeah, it was a great aquarium, oldest in the country actually. richard can expound upon that much more than myself. either way, there have been efforts to raise money and re-open for some time now, hopefully it happens within this decade if we are lucky!--

Sounds like a cool gar; I look forward to pictures of it.

I wish finding big gars was a problem rather than finding gars in LFS's period...

yeah, the LFS i always go to always has FLGs of various sizes (speaking of which, has anyone seen John/snookn on the board in a while???), but not much else. and we all know that gars will look different in our tanks than they do at the shop, so we'll see how that all goes...just hoping to avoid broken-back syndrome AND Croc II initiation mortality...--
--solomon

 

[E_americanus]

Loving your Cuban study. They're so rare in the states and seeing juveniles is particularly cool(sorry no better word for it. ). I'd love to get my hands on one of them. When your studies done and those Cuban's become to many mouths to feed you can always count on me to help, by taking one off your hands that is . Just let me know in advance so I can start saving up for one. I'd hate to have to sell my first born in a mad rush to get the money up to obtain one.

thanks man, it's been an interesting project thus far, and i am hoping we can get things rolling soon with the second half. we'll be using the majority for further work down the line, and the few we are putting up for sale now are already spoken for, but i will keep you posted.

hoping to get further updates on everything soon...it's so much easier to shoot video than photos...much less time in post-production (sorting, cropping, uploading)!--
--solomon

 

[koltsixx]

thanks man, it's been an interesting project thus far, and i am hoping we can get things rolling soon with the second half. we'll be using the majority for further work down the line, and the few we are putting up for sale now are already spoken for, but i will keep you posted.

hoping to get further updates on everything soon...it's so much easier to shoot video than photos...much less time in post-production (sorting, cropping, uploading)!--
--solomon

Your welcome man. I've actually down played my enthusiasm about your threads. I'm actually uber curious about how they comm. with each other. From what I understand if I understood correctly as far as aggression Cubans come in third place right behind Trop.'s with Gators being number one. Though it's never been made clear to me how different the levels of aggression are or if any is toward conspecifics.

For instance I have a Amphilophus Lyonsi which is in the same species as Red Devils and Midas Cichlids. Yet describing them as the least aggressive of the Amphilophus is misleading. In general Amphilophus are relentlessly aggressive yet the Lyonsi is very peaceable. So using other Amph's as a reference is confusing cause you imagine the Lyonsi is the least aggressive of a really aggressive family. The Lyonsi are more on par with Jack Demspsey's or Oscars as far as aggression. Usually only given to bluff and insincere short chases.

Now my confusion with Cubans comes from comparing them to Gators and Trops which one is known to be ruthless and the other is given to random acts of aggression that could lead to tankmate death's. So where do Cubans lie on that scale? Are they really like slightly watered down versions of Trop's or are they more likely to bluff than actually attack? Also when does the aggression start to develop at what size? Is it toward conspecific's as well?

Also in regards to me getting my grubby little mits on one. Don't worry I figured there'd be a long line ahead of me. Just wanted to put it out there that I'd really like to have one. I actually plan to comm. the Cuban if I can get one with my Armatus if possible. If not I've got a 75 gallon I'm doing my best to keep open for dream fish that don't comm. successfully with my Armatus. Even now I don't know which would be the perfect Cuban size to try such a risky comm. with. Is it better to go with bigger cause the Gar will be more self confident or will a larger Cuban be more set in his ways and harder to adapt to a comm. set-up. Right now I have a at least 12 inch Florida and 14 inch Shortnose comm.'ed with a breeding pair of Lyonsi cichlids, Hoplias Curupira wolf and Hydrolycus Armatus successfully. The Lyonsi, Gar and Armatus have been successfully housed for 8 months with no problems. Though I think I'm lucky the Armatus is very stable and not prone to being spooked or love bites as I would call them. lol! I even got very lucky with my Shortnose whose also incredibly stable and not prone to spooking. In 8 months no jumping of any kind day or night. No mad dashes despite even my youngest's most devious attempts at scaring them. The only problem I have is with a Pimelodus Ornatus who needs a valium and the Lyonsi have to be fed last because the Gar's snapping at floating pellets makes them wary during feedings. I usually try to stuff the Gars with handfeedings of various frozen foods then put in the pellets so the Gar's aren't as aggressive trying to get the pellets. Sorry for running on like that. Just thought considering your study, you might find such a unrecommended comm.'s success interesting. It's been highly advised against me comm.'ing the Gars with either Cichlids or Armatus, but I'm a stubborn fool and just had to have my way. Luckily the fish gods were feeling generous.

By the way the Vid was of good quality and more than sufficient. Keep them coming.

 

[Wiggles92]

well that is a good start, the gar care guide has generally good info to get going with the various species - it's my fault with some of it as i have been meaning to go through it with edits for some time now...i keep telling myself "after the dissertation is done".

that being said, that aragonite issue was something myself and a couple others came up with way back in the day, particularly since i was keeping Cubans since 2004 (long before the guide). the water hardness is not something i monitor nor do i think it's a major issue. but water supplies differ from place to place. i think if you have a buffered system and maintain consistent water conditions you will be fine.

a lot of what we know about CBG sensitivity (unfortunately) came from my early experiences and (also unfortunately) killing multiple adult CBGs. i'd have broodstock right now if i knew all the current stuff back then (but no one else was keeping them here).

in short, stable pH, usually maintained with crushed coral, and you'll be fine.

I figured that stability would be the main thing for keeping a Cuban gar alive; it's a good thing that I don't have trouble with pH swings or any of that with the water that I use. I'll have to grab some crushed coral; it's cheaper than aragonite plus PetCo was out of aragonite when I went there to get it.

yeah, it was a great aquarium, oldest in the country actually. richard can expound upon that much more than myself. either way, there have been efforts to raise money and re-open for some time now, hopefully it happens within this decade if we are lucky!

Hopefully it does re-open soon!

yeah, the LFS i always go to always has FLGs of various sizes (speaking of which, has anyone seen John/snookn on the board in a while???), but not much else. and we all know that gars will look different in our tanks than they do at the shop, so we'll see how that all goes...just hoping to avoid broken-back syndrome AND Croc II initiation mortality...--
--solomon

Lucky, I have to ask at any LFS's near me about getting any gars and usually have no luck. Hopefully the new gar does well in Gar-Den II (?)!

As for John, I haven't saw any posts by him recently either; I emailed him a few days ago but haven't received a response yet.

 

[valderi123]

cool vid