As we know the flowerhorn originated with crossing fish from different Amphilophus species. Then later on they started adding Texas cichlids, stuff from the Vieja family, etc. So a friend and i are doing a little breeding project going back to basics. We have a pair that is a creamsickle Male Midas and a Female F2 Trimac. And we have a pair that is a Male Lyonsi and a Female F2 Trimac. The plan is to cross the (2) spawns together. Any thoughts?
Original Flowerhorns
- Thread starter Trimapit
- Start date
nobody gonna want the fry.
what youre doing is experiencing and learning but I tell you now the fry are just mutts and have no extraordinary traits.
what youre doing is experiencing and learning but I tell you now the fry are just mutts and have no extraordinary traits.
I didn't say anything about giving fry to anyone. Most of the fry will be culled and thrown into other tanks. I'm more interested in recreating the original Flowerhorns that people fell in love with. The temperament seemed more "active" then they are now. I have been in the cichlid hobby for 16 years. And got my first flowerhorn when they first started becoming popular in the US.
A male Blue Monkey named Budda. It was extremely intelligent and completely psychotic. And have never had one like it since. My thought is that the intelligence might have come from being less inbred amd more closer to the original crosses.
A male Blue Monkey named Budda. It was extremely intelligent and completely psychotic. And have never had one like it since. My thought is that the intelligence might have come from being less inbred amd more closer to the original crosses.
People will tell you that you can't do this or can't do that, but you can definitely achieve your goals. If it was done before, it can definitely be done again.
As well as starting from scratch, you might otherwise be able to achieve your goals by finding individual fish (from the original contributing species) with the traits you desire and breeding them back in to fertile flowerhorns to provide the genetic diversity and personality you're looking for.
When you're trying to establish your own personal strain of any fish, and I might be wrong, but I believe in the early days there's less culling and more growing out... because you're wanting to see what you get out of your broods at the end. Fish that seem right at first, might end up undesirable in adulthood (and vice versa).
Developing your own strain of a fish is cool af and, I'll say this again, people might discourage you or focus on how much work it will be or, as in this case, say your early fry will be undesirable... but the reality is that if you're passionate about it then it won't seem like work at all and you will reach your final goal eventually. And the journey will be fun. Time-consuming fun! That's the point of a hobby, to consume time with something you enjoy.
I'm a bit of a softie, so I'd struggle with the culling involved myself. I just wouldn't like to cull healthy fish because they're not what I want--if I had the space and/or connections to provide the bulk of any brood with good homes then I'd be more inclined to go for it.
Either way, interesting idea and if you go for it be sure to--if you can--document it and keep us informed of your progress.
GOOD LUCK TO YOU AND YOUR FRIEND ^_^
P.S. Try to reach out to Asian breeders, a lot of them are in Facebook groups and discuss lots of breeding tips for the CA hybrids they produce. They'll be a really good source of information I think.
As well as starting from scratch, you might otherwise be able to achieve your goals by finding individual fish (from the original contributing species) with the traits you desire and breeding them back in to fertile flowerhorns to provide the genetic diversity and personality you're looking for.
When you're trying to establish your own personal strain of any fish, and I might be wrong, but I believe in the early days there's less culling and more growing out... because you're wanting to see what you get out of your broods at the end. Fish that seem right at first, might end up undesirable in adulthood (and vice versa).
Developing your own strain of a fish is cool af and, I'll say this again, people might discourage you or focus on how much work it will be or, as in this case, say your early fry will be undesirable... but the reality is that if you're passionate about it then it won't seem like work at all and you will reach your final goal eventually. And the journey will be fun. Time-consuming fun! That's the point of a hobby, to consume time with something you enjoy.
I'm a bit of a softie, so I'd struggle with the culling involved myself. I just wouldn't like to cull healthy fish because they're not what I want--if I had the space and/or connections to provide the bulk of any brood with good homes then I'd be more inclined to go for it.
Either way, interesting idea and if you go for it be sure to--if you can--document it and keep us informed of your progress.
GOOD LUCK TO YOU AND YOUR FRIEND ^_^
P.S. Try to reach out to Asian breeders, a lot of them are in Facebook groups and discuss lots of breeding tips for the CA hybrids they produce. They'll be a really good source of information I think.
If you have a pure trimac that would have better fries. Mixing midas will probably end up having a few bunch of faders which most people would not desire to have. Some of my friends here are experienced breeders and they prefer the deep red and green colour of the trimac. And the big sizes that they can get. Doesnt matter the kok size but the body shape and the colours is what we want to see most. They can be very beautiful.
I would suggest a simple outcross from an established strain to a pure fish if it is the hybrid vigor you are after. Srd x trimac but you will probably have the hybrid vigor in a pure looking trimac.
Dont forget it wasnt just hybridization that created flowerhorn but selctive breeding. There is no simple A x B = certain fish, long term breeding projects take up alot of time and space and not much point in this attempt to be honest.
Dont forget it wasnt just hybridization that created flowerhorn but selctive breeding. There is no simple A x B = certain fish, long term breeding projects take up alot of time and space and not much point in this attempt to be honest.
I thought about the outcross idea (as i also breed my own hog hunting dogs, so we utilize outcrossing to strengthen line breeding at times). And i have an SRD in my back pocket. This is just something we are playing with. We have some extra fish swimming around in our tanks and the room to do it. I already have pairs of the fish listed. We have a breeding pair of Amphilophus Lyonsi, pair of F1 Rio Sarabia Trimac, pair of F1 Rio Naranjo Trimac, pair of F1 Apoyo Chancho, pair of F1 Arenal Midas, and Wild Caught Texas Cichlids. So i am just by no means trying to muddy the water of Pure strains. I definitely keep things seperate and true. This is just an idea we thought would be fun.
I'd say go for it, especially if your comfortable with culling undesirable fry. Would probably be a fun experiment for you and who knows, you may end up with a fantastic looking hybrid.
I wonder if that was just you lucking out on a fish with a fantastic personality, rather than it being the breed. After all some fish are just more fun and personable than others of the same breed.
Sounds like you know plenty about breeding but outcrossing does not improve line breeding its the opposite, it helps relieve the burden of the line breeding by intorducing new genes. Some people who dont know breeding may encourage you but sounds like you have some worthy pairs of pure fish that would be more rewarding to breed. Plus you will be able to rehome them. When you cross two different cichlids you end up with mostly grey ugly things or fish with 1 cool feature and nothing else. If you do get something you like and want to breed it further theres the old fertility issues to deal with. Of course if you really do have the space and time and can deal with growing unknowns out to 2 or 3" and destroying hundreds of fish go for it. It is how we got flowerhorn after all.
What kind of dogs do you breed for hog hunting? Lots of guys in the south using staffies. I have always wanted to hint wild hog.
What kind of dogs do you breed for hog hunting? Lots of guys in the south using staffies. I have always wanted to hint wild hog.
And you are probably right. He was just an awesome fish. By the time he died ypu could barely see in the tank because the whole front was scratched up from his teeth biting the glass. He was so awesome to have. That was what really made me get hooked on big cichlids.