OSCARS WONT LIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!
- Thread starter Oscar guy
- Start date
polomax24,
Can you take a stand on an issue, so that others more knowledgeable on this matter may firmly identify you as either fairly clueless, or entirely lost?
people like you shouldn't be giving out advice on matters which you don't know about.
I've read of discus breeders who keep a continuous freshwater trickle system in their tanks, and that is after all the only logical thing to do. You wouldn't have any idea why, though. Since you are so firmly entranced with your arrogant-yet-ignorant outlook, I'll be obliged to watch you stumble about in the dark a while longer.
Can you take a stand on an issue, so that others more knowledgeable on this matter may firmly identify you as either fairly clueless, or entirely lost?
people like you shouldn't be giving out advice on matters which you don't know about.
I've read of discus breeders who keep a continuous freshwater trickle system in their tanks, and that is after all the only logical thing to do. You wouldn't have any idea why, though. Since you are so firmly entranced with your arrogant-yet-ignorant outlook, I'll be obliged to watch you stumble about in the dark a while longer.
polomax24 said:
No, im not the Miles from dubuosi.com, or the 'african cichlid Miles'.. He is a friend of the breeder of Plecos however. I think its suppose to be a secret about her breeding em, so I'm not gonna say much.. There is a definate hint in this message, that could easily give it away though
piranha45 said:
Ouch.. Harsh..
I was hoping after my explaining the concept of 'fish adapting to your water source', it would dawn some light on the subject.. guess not, or maybe people just didn't bother to read it..
I saw a study done on a goldfish, about growing to the size of it's environment.. They used a trickle system in a 1 gallon tank, and the goldfish got so big it couldn't move..
It sounds like some people are stuck in the days of undergravel filters and minimum water changes.. For some, you read a book once, and thats factual for the rest of your life..or the person who taught you about fish, SWORE by his rule, and so now you do the same. These water change %'s and 'Inch per Gallon' rules are all beginner guidelines to teach good husbandry habits, not to live by.
I should write a book 'The Big Book of Aquaria Mythology' .. Featuring chapters like "I don't grow to the size of my home!" ... "Stress-Coat is a NOT cure-all!" ... "Goldfish are horrible pets to keep in bowls!"
Miles
PS. The guy has other issues. Large water changes should not make slime coating peel away, unless you have chloramine in your water. It's no surprise to me that someone named 'Oscar' guy is having troubles with his 'Oscars' he loves so much.. I often see Oscars returned at petstores because they go into inadequate homes (uncycled, undersized) and are fed improperly, strictly for entertainment purposes. (feeder fish) He-yuck, feed a nudder to dem oscurs..
THE LOGIC BEHIND WATER CHANGES
First, you have clean, fresh water. Clean fresh water is absolutely necessary for proper fish health, for freshwater fish anyway.
Then, you add fish to the water.
The nitrogen cycle begins:
Fish eat food, then they excrete solid waste and urine.
This fish waste releases
1) Ammonia, which is very deadly, and
2) Dissolved Organic Contaminants (steroids, hormones, and other highly undesirable protein substances which are proven in laboratory tests to be detrimental to fish health. At least one chemist I've spoken to has said DOCs are likely more damaging than Nitrate.
Bacteria eventually emerge-- mostly in your filter's media (biowheel, sponge, bioballs etc)-- which consume the Ammonia, and release Nitrite as their waste product. Nitrite is also very deadly to fish. The Nitrite is then consumed by a 2nd set of bacteria that eventually emerge, which convert the Nitrite in Nitrate. Nitrate is not broken down. Normal levels of Nitrate will not instantaneously kill fish like Nitrite or Ammonia will, but it is nevertheless a long-term health detriment for fish.
I could go into further details of cycling, but that would tarry too far from the point I'm trying to make here
In a properly cycled tank, Ammonia and Nitrite are quickly removed from the aquarium system...
...leaving only Nitrate and DOCs. There are no bacteria or other substances which remove Nitrate and DOCs (though it can be mentioned that aquatic plants consume Nitrate, and this surplus of Nitrate is why many tanks in sunlight can experience explosive algae growth). The only way to remove Nitrate and DOCs is via WATER CHANGES.
Nitrate and DOC removal are the reason why WATER CHANGES and SUBSTRATE VACUUMING are essential for optimal fish health. These two harmful substances are constantly being added to the tank. I do not personally know if Nitrates and DOCs are evenly spread throughout the water, or if they congregate moreso in the tank's substrate, nor do I know of any source that has hard information on that matter. Its reasonable to expect though that due to water current from the filter, nitrates and DOCs are spread throughout the tank's water in addition to the substrate.
If your tank's current water is of similar pH, temperature, etc., then WATER CHANGES have NO DETRIMENTAL IMPACT ON A FISH'S HEALTH. All they do is remove the Nitrates and DOCs. The more water you remove, the more Nitrates and DOCs you are removing. A 10% waterchange obviously isn't removing jack s---t.
If you don't remove nitrates and DOCs, you risk a huge variety of long-term health problems for your fish. Therefore, good aquarists will remove large quantities of water on a frequent basis.
If your tank's current water is NOT of similar pH, temperature, etc. then you will have to devise a plan to MAKE them similar prior, to the water change. I don't believe it takes rocket science to figure out ways to go about doing this.
First, you have clean, fresh water. Clean fresh water is absolutely necessary for proper fish health, for freshwater fish anyway.
Then, you add fish to the water.
The nitrogen cycle begins:
Fish eat food, then they excrete solid waste and urine.
This fish waste releases
1) Ammonia, which is very deadly, and
2) Dissolved Organic Contaminants (steroids, hormones, and other highly undesirable protein substances which are proven in laboratory tests to be detrimental to fish health. At least one chemist I've spoken to has said DOCs are likely more damaging than Nitrate.
Bacteria eventually emerge-- mostly in your filter's media (biowheel, sponge, bioballs etc)-- which consume the Ammonia, and release Nitrite as their waste product. Nitrite is also very deadly to fish. The Nitrite is then consumed by a 2nd set of bacteria that eventually emerge, which convert the Nitrite in Nitrate. Nitrate is not broken down. Normal levels of Nitrate will not instantaneously kill fish like Nitrite or Ammonia will, but it is nevertheless a long-term health detriment for fish.
I could go into further details of cycling, but that would tarry too far from the point I'm trying to make here
In a properly cycled tank, Ammonia and Nitrite are quickly removed from the aquarium system...
...leaving only Nitrate and DOCs. There are no bacteria or other substances which remove Nitrate and DOCs (though it can be mentioned that aquatic plants consume Nitrate, and this surplus of Nitrate is why many tanks in sunlight can experience explosive algae growth). The only way to remove Nitrate and DOCs is via WATER CHANGES.
Nitrate and DOC removal are the reason why WATER CHANGES and SUBSTRATE VACUUMING are essential for optimal fish health. These two harmful substances are constantly being added to the tank. I do not personally know if Nitrates and DOCs are evenly spread throughout the water, or if they congregate moreso in the tank's substrate, nor do I know of any source that has hard information on that matter. Its reasonable to expect though that due to water current from the filter, nitrates and DOCs are spread throughout the tank's water in addition to the substrate.
If your tank's current water is of similar pH, temperature, etc., then WATER CHANGES have NO DETRIMENTAL IMPACT ON A FISH'S HEALTH. All they do is remove the Nitrates and DOCs. The more water you remove, the more Nitrates and DOCs you are removing. A 10% waterchange obviously isn't removing jack s---t.
If you don't remove nitrates and DOCs, you risk a huge variety of long-term health problems for your fish. Therefore, good aquarists will remove large quantities of water on a frequent basis.
If your tank's current water is NOT of similar pH, temperature, etc. then you will have to devise a plan to MAKE them similar prior, to the water change. I don't believe it takes rocket science to figure out ways to go about doing this.
Oscars are big, messy fish...while 75% water changes aren't exactly necessary (do like 50% and save yourself some effort) every week, its not really going to hurt, either. However, I think this part of the thread has been beaten to death and then some, so perhaps, Oscarguy, you could get back to us with those water parametres, and we could focus on actually trying to figure out what DID cause all these deaths.
I work at a pet store and often have people come in all upset because they wanted to clean their tank and did a 75% water change usually ignorance like this is not commited by someone with such a large tank it is usually commited by the beginning aquarist I never do more than a 30% change because it does not throw off the ph by that much and you do not have to stress them out as long by moving everything around and scaring them with your hands in their tank for those that believe a large water change is good I would like to hear some benefits of such a change
ignore last post... yes aquatic plants will take care of your nitrates very quickly and efficiently. as far as the DOC's they can be eliminated with smaller frequent water changes... and also nitrates and doc's are both equally spread throughout the water and if it wasn't you would have to somehow do multiple water tests from diffrent areas in your tank... I think it is also important to talk about filtration in connection with ammonia and nitrites... when you talk about a biological bed you were referring to beneficial nitrifine bacteria right? they break down the ammonia and nitrites and the best way to grow this bacteria is with an undergravel filter since your entire gravel bed is turned into a biological bed instead of just the biowheel (sorry penguin you are still inferior to the good ol undergravel filter)...
I have a 250G tank and I do a water change every 3-4 days of about 180-200Gs of water and all my tank parameters are fine. Its the only way I can keep my water good with my powerfeedings for my growing fish that produce a lot of waste
Huh? Oh, yes, you are so knowledge with everything.
I saw you other posts in this forum. Dude, you have an issue, stop calling other people ignorant. People just want to input their opinions.
My 240g tank with many tank busters. I actually have some experience with large and robust cichlids as you can see.
