Over-dosing Prime reduces oxygen??

[bigspizz]

I hope that wasn't directed at me...I didn't mean to imply I didn't believe you, simply that I still wanted to see what further information Seachem will provide on the subject. I'm still waiting on a response to the message I sent to them by the way. Either way I think I'm going to stop using extra prime when I do water changes.

Nope, not you man. But yeah, no need to overdose.

 

[trebor69]

ok I am an avid user of Prime....and I am not too careful measuring it out so I probably OD it a little each time I use it....so this thread caught my eye

but I am a little confused here

if I am reading this right it has been confirmed by Seachem that Prime can/does lower oxygen levels at higher doses?

also I believe I read bigspizz and rallyman saying that Prime does in fact accumulate....while nutcase says the opposite saying it biodegrades and included a link to Seachem support confirming such

and then bigspizz and nutcase agree like they made the same point when in fact they opposed each other? lol maybe I need more coffee this morning but did I miss sumthin?

 

[T1KARMANN]

i put 10 x cap fulls from a 500ml bottle every water change twice per week 30% water changed

never had any problems

 

[BTB0923]

Seachem responded to my query this morning. Not a very detailed answer but they seem to back the theory that their product is safe to overdose. Here is my question followed by the response Seachem Support provided:

comments: Is it true that using more Prime than is directed on the bottle over an extended period of time may lead to oxygen deprivation in an aquarium?
>
> Thanks

Hello Brendan,
No, this is not true. Prime can be safely overdosed up to five times the recommended amount in an emergency situation. Doing so is very safe, and though Prime is a reducing agent, it would take a massive overdose to have any effect on the oxygen levels in the tank. Because Prime only works for 24-48 hours, its effects do not build up over time. Please let us know if you have further questions.
Seachem Support 10208
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Seachem Laboratories, Inc.
1000 Seachem Drive, Madison, GA 30650
888-SEACHEM Fax 706-343-6070

 

[mkman]

well that answers the question then! Directly from seachem.

 

[bigspizz]

ok I am an avid user of Prime....and I am not too careful measuring it out so I probably OD it a little each time I use it....so this thread caught my eye

but I am a little confused here

if I am reading this right it has been confirmed by Seachem that Prime can/does lower oxygen levels at higher doses?

also I believe I read bigspizz and rallyman saying that Prime does in fact accumulate....while nutcase says the opposite saying it biodegrades and included a link to Seachem support confirming such

and then bigspizz and nutcase agree like they made the same point when in fact they opposed each other? lol maybe I need more coffee this morning but did I miss sumthin?

I don't click links....I am/was also confused as to how he figured we were agreeing..I thought I hit my head..

i put 10 x cap fulls from a 500ml bottle every water change twice per week 30% water changed

never had any problems

10 caps in how much water? Post is misleading.

Seachem responded to my query this morning. Not a very detailed answer but they seem to back the theory that their product is safe to overdose. Here is my question followed by the response Seachem Support provided:

comments: Is it true that using more Prime than is directed on the bottle over an extended period of time may lead to oxygen deprivation in an aquarium?
>
> Thanks

Hello Brendan,
No, this is not true. Prime can be safely overdosed up to five times the recommended amount in an emergency situation. Doing so is very safe, and though Prime is a reducing agent, it would take a massive overdose to have any effect on the oxygen levels in the tank. Because Prime only works for 24-48 hours, its effects do not build up over time. Please let us know if you have further questions.
Seachem Support 10208
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Seachem Laboratories, Inc.
1000 Seachem Drive, Madison, GA 30650
888-SEACHEM Fax 706-343-6070

LOL That guy has no clue.....

well that answers the question then! Directly from seachem.

The guy is blowing smoke, if that is from seachem...Prolly some highschool kid summer job...

 

[sostoudt]

Seachem responded to my query this morning. Not a very detailed answer but they seem to back the theory that their product is safe to overdose. Here is my question followed by the response Seachem Support provided:

comments: Is it true that using more Prime than is directed on the bottle over an extended period of time may lead to oxygen deprivation in an aquarium?
>
> Thanks

Hello Brendan,
No, this is not true. Prime can be safely overdosed up to five times the recommended amount in an emergency situation. Doing so is very safe, and though Prime is a reducing agent, it would take a massive overdose to have any effect on the oxygen levels in the tank. Because Prime only works for 24-48 hours, its effects do not build up over time. Please let us know if you have further questions.
Seachem Support 10208
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Seachem Laboratories, Inc.
1000 Seachem Drive, Madison, GA 30650
888-SEACHEM Fax 706-343-6070

maybe they changed there formula. or they rethought there warning. I am possitive that they used to say a warning about oxygen levels, i guess it may have just been a cover our asses statement. that after testing it wasnt as necessary.

edit: i wonder why its only up to 5x, what happens after that?

 

[Toby_H]

I guess I misread or misremembered BigSpizz’s opinions on Prime “building up” over time…

He originally suggested it does build up… as did Rallyman…

I then provided a quote with a verifying link to show where Seachem said it does not… and now BTB has provided information straight from Seachem confirming the same…

Sorry for misrepresenting your opinion BigSpizz, it was a simple mistake…

But assuming that Seachem is wrong twice or their representatives are uninformed kids spreading misinformation about Seachem while on Seachem’s clock is a little harder to believe than “BigSpizz made a mistake”… I’m going to trust what Seachem’s employee said… no offense…

I also think the fact we have many Prime users who regularly overdose with no ill effects supports this conclusion….

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I looked through a lot of Seachem’s site & customer service forum yesterday and didn’t see anything about excessive amounts of Prime lowering oxygen levels… and now BTB has a message from Seachem saying it does not… So I am going to trust that as fact also… especially as we have ample amounts of Prime users with high levels of overdosing experience with no signs of such…

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All that said, I still agree with what BigSpizz and others have been saying all along that it is a waste to consistently overdose with prime… Sure there may be times where it is beneficial and I wouldn’t hesitate to do so at those times. But to do so at every water change is simply wasting product/money…

edit: i wonder why its only up to 5x, what happens after that?

I’m not sure how accurate/scientific this idea is but this is a quote from the letter TBT received

it would take a massive overdose to have any effect on the oxygen levels in the tank.

 

[bigspizz]

Good debate, I still stand by my knowledge, no matter what was said here.
i understand the chemistry, not the hype.

 

[Toby_H]

Thanks for not taking my disagreement as confrontation... it definitely wasn't meant that way...

When you said this:

When a solution is suspended(and has nothing to bind) it is not exposed, therefore the half life is inapplicable. It is still active.....As per my original post I stated "seachem has stated"...Are you assuming I made that up? I can find the thread with the E-mail attached with the rep's response..I thought my word would be enough here...I guess it is not, I will look up the thread.

I fully agree that that the detail that just because once bound it only lasts 24~48 hours, this does not mean that the ‘unused’ solution suspended in the tank water only lasts 24 ~ 48 hours…

But in a customer service thread on Seachem’s site a Seachem Customer Service rep stated, and Seachem made this statement available to all it’s customers:

Tech Support Tech Support CH - Prime biodegrades in 24 hours. Therefore there is no build up to worry about. You can safely dose Prime every day with out problems.

This statement & source can be verified here if desired - http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/archive/index.php/t-144.html

And it’s common for a bottled chemical ingredient to have a long “shelf life” while bottled and stored… but biodegrading is common as it is agitated, left to open air/oxygen and diluted with other elements… such as when left suspended in our fish tanks (whether binding ammonia/nitrite or not)…

Again, I’m not trying to argue any side here, just trying to engage in logical conversation on a topic relevant to many of us…