Over-dosing Prime reduces oxygen??

  • We are currently upgrading MFK. thanks! -neo
bigspizz;3262774; said:
What did they 'do/or'say that was 'scientific'? Not 'touchy', just not willing to be brow beaten. I know how it works, and admitted to being able to find the "proof", but again, some of us were here....What the latest "seachem" mega pros said, is in direct contradiction of what the original rep said. If I work up some energy, I might play......
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It is not that 'they' said anything scientific. If the makers of a product say it does something then one tends to believe them unless given reason not to. Yes I know not all manufacturers are 100% honest about their products but I am a glass 1/2 full kinda guy.

I have many thousands of dollars worth of Discus and exotic plecos that are exposed to Prime on nearly a daily basis and I would wanna shoot myself if I killed them by overdosing anything into their water.

That is where my desire to get a definitive answer comes from.

Anyway... I don't know if anyone else has but I put in a formal request for Seachem to come and join this 'debate'. I hope they take the time to clear this up with a clear description.
 
if it pleases the forum i found a thread here from a year ago. where a seachem rep says it reduces oxygen when over dosing.
http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131344
email
Hello Ryan,

We recommend using Prime at the start-up of a tank and
whenever adding or replacing water. Whenever you are just
adding or replacing water, you should dose the correct
amount of Prime for just the new water you are putting
into your tank (not the whole volume of the tank). When
you dose the new water, make sure you do not continually
overdose with Prime; it is a reducing agent and when
overdosed, it can reduce the amount of oxygen in the
water. We recommend adding the Prime to the new water
before you put it into your tank, but if that is not
possible, you can add (the correct amount) directly to
your aquarium.
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sounds alot like spizz was saying
 
This thread has developed a couple of different debates…

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The “excessive prime lowers oxygen” debate…

I thoroughly searched the Seachem’s Customer Service Forum and found no mention of Prime lowering Oxygen levels, but that simply proved no one asked in that forum… I’ll go sign up and now and ask that question…

BTB sent an email to Seachem and their rep’s response was (post #34 here) - “though Prime is a reducing agent, it would take a massive overdose to have any effect on the oxygen levels in the tank.” I would have to take “a massive overdose” to mean well over the recommended 5 times recommended for emergency use on the bottle…

Sostdout just shared a quote that came from a Customer Service Rep stating - “it is a reducing agent and when overdosed, it can reduce the amount of oxygen in the water.” Which is in direct conflict with what BTB was told. Neither has offered a definition of “Overdose/Massive Overdose” which could explain the difference.

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In the quote recently shared by Sostdout the Rep also stated - “We recommend adding the Prime to the new water before you put it into your tank, but if that is not possible, you can add (the correct amount) directly to your aquarium.” Which is in direct conflict with what is stated on the bottle.

On each bottle of prime it is stated - “If adding directly to the aquarium base dose on aquarium volume.”

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Another related but separate debate was in regards to whether or not Prime will ‘build up’ in an aquarium…

BigSpizz as well as several others suggested Prime does build up and gave several seemingly logical reasons for believing so. BigSpizz suggested this was stated by a Seachem Rep in an email but was an able to track down the old thread to provide an exact quote (I suggest we don’t hold that against him).

In post # 26 I gave this quote from a Seachem Rep along with a link to verify the quote - “Prime biodegrades in 24 hours. Therefore there is no build up to worry about. You can safely dose Prime every day with out problems.” Which directly conflicts with what BigSpizz suggested he was told by a Seachem Rep.

In post #34 BTB quoted a Seachem Rep saying - “Because Prime only works for 24-48 hours, its effects do not build up over time.” Which is in compliance with what I found but direct conflict with what BigSpizz suggested…

But the quote shared by Sostdout states - “When you dose the new water, make sure you do not continually overdose with Prime; it is a reducing agent and when overdosed, it can reduce the amount of oxygen in the water.” I view the use of the word “continually” to suggest Prime does build up… which supports Big Spizz’s suggestion and opposes what BTB and I were told…

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I started writing this as a personal review (no intension to post) to weed out heresy and just review facts… but there seems to be so many contradicting “facts”, all of which seem legitimate, I’m not sure what to think… Although if a Seachem rep does join us I hope they read this post and explain the apparent contradictions…
 
I asked both of the two main questions / debate topics in the Customer Service forum. I feel the publicly displayed statements may be a little more reliable than email responses as these can be cross referenced by many…

Feel free to follow and/or participate in the conversation on Seachem’s Forum… Although I will update this thread with any conclusive response they offer…

Prime Overdose -vs.- Oxygen - http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=2803


Prime Building Up Over Time? - http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=2804
 
exactly nutcase.... two separate topics of discussion

I didn't really think anybody was debating whether Prime can reduce oxygen....I took it that everybody was in agreement that it can/does but is not at all dangerous except in extreme overdoses.

Which is when the big concern of it accumulating came into play.

I invited Seachem to come here....but I see nothing yet

So off to check out NC's links
 
When I started this thread I had no idea the topic was going to be so thoroughly investigated.....thank you to everybody participating in the discussion.

nc_nutcase;3265257; said:
I asked both of the two main questions / debate topics in the Customer Service forum......

......I will update this thread with any conclusive response they offer…
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Please do.... I for one would really like to read an answer that provides a little more detail than the last response I got from them.
 
Well I got a response....they sent it to my email and asked me to post it here instead of coming here themselves. It really doesnt clear it up too much because they just keep saying it only works for 24 hours or so and does not build up or accumulate. They do not explain WHY it does not accumulate or WHAT happens to the xtra in an overdose situation.

here is what they sent me

" Thank you very much for pointing this out to
us; we hope to help clear up this issue and would truly
appreciate you passing the information along once
receiving it. All water conditioners are reducing agents;
reducing agents will "reduce" whatever is available within
the aquarium. For example, it reduces chlorine(Cl2) to
two separate chloride molecules. Though the potential to
reduce oxygen is there with any reducing agent, this is
very, very rare. Prime can be safely overdosed up to five
times the recommended amount in an emergency situation.
Doing so is very safe, and it would take a massive
overdose to have any effect on the oxygen levels in the
tank. Because Prime only works for 24-48 hours, its
effects do not build up over time. Hope this helps!
Please let us know if you have further questions.
Seachem Support 10208"
 
Amusing, I got the same post word for word in their forum…

Re: Prime Overdose -vs- Oxygen

Thank you very much for pointing this out to us; we hope to help clear up this issue and would truly appreciate you passing the information along once receiving it. All water conditioners are reducing agents; reducing agents will "reduce" whatever is available within the aquarium. For example, it reduces chlorine(Cl2) to two separate chloride molecules. Though the potential to reduce oxygen is there with any reducing agent, this is very, very rare. Prime can be safely overdosed up to five times the recommended amount in an emergency situation. Doing so is very safe, and it would take a massive overdose to have any effect on the oxygen levels in the tank. Because Prime only works for 24-48 hours, its effects do not build up over time. Hope this helps! Please let us know if you have further questions.
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http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=2803


This was posted in their forum by a member… and a Seachem Rep thanked him for his post…

Re: Prime Building Up Over Time?

No, Prime only builds up for every instructed dose added (e.g. a 2x dose for the entire aquarium would mean you can replace all the aquarium water with chloramine-treated water, but you would have to dose after adding the water or replace 50% of the water only.). I said "2x", because if you had already dosed once, then you would have to does again. To make things simple you can still do the 1x recommended dose.


It lasts only 24 hours per instructed dose (i.e you dose to the proper liter/gallon of water).


It doesn't become toxic no matter how much you over dose, but it will deplete oxygen a bit more (that's what some people may refer to it as being toxic when they see their fish die by suffocation from extreme overdosing i.e a 20x dose).


I believe it oxidizes in the aquarium water or evaporates as a type of gas during 24 hours from the/an initial dose.
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http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=2804


The short conclusion…

A) At 5x dosage or less, Prime does not affect oxygen levels… at excessive dosages (example 20x) oxygen levels may be affected…

B) Prime biodegrades/dissipates/evaporates in 24~48 hours…
 
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