Parachromis Experts, Identity Crisis, pics inside, etc...

[terd ferguson]

So, a lot of you have seen photos of my tank and fishes. I have a thing for the Parachromis. They are everything I love about big cichlids. About six months ago at an Asian LFS, I bought a "Gold Jaguar" that was later identified by experts here as a loiselli. His name for easier ID in the coming photos is "Captain Awesome". From the same store a couple of months ago I bought another "Gold Jaguar" that I first thought was a friedrichsthalii. I used to call him "Ghengis", now I call him "Joe Kickass". I'm not so sure he's not also a loiselli.

But, these two fishes are different enough that I believe they are two different species. Or are these just subtle geographic color variations? Captain Awesome (the confirmed loiselli) is yellow with a gold base and blue/green sheen on his sides. Joe Kickass is a paler yellow with a more whiteish base with more vibrant yellow sheen and traces of purple on his back.

That's why I've called out the Parachromis experts to let me know what they think. Here's some shots from tonight. They're not that great, but illustrate the differences and similarities to a certain extent.

Captain Awesome, MFK confirmed loiselli...

Joe Kickass, suspected friedrichsthalii...

They look similar, right? Well the two fishes' body shapes are a little different with Captain Awesome being very football shaped and Joe Kickass being more elongated, like a jag. The worm patterns on their faces are very different even though these photos don't clearly show it. Check out a couple of more shots of each.

Captain Awesome, again, MFK confirmed loiselli

Joe Kickass, suspected friedrichsthalii

The second set of pics more truly represent their real life coloration differences. And if that weren't enough, here's a shot from when I first brought Joe Kickass home. Check out all this purple.

This shot of Joe Kickass was taken with the tank lights off and a small spotlight the first night in the tank.

And here's a shot of a freddy I found online that looked similar. Keep in mind and check out the above pics again, my 'freddy' doesn't look like this since he's settled in. Also, Captain Awesome looked nothing like this when I brought him home.

Thanks for looking and thanks for this great forum.

 

[urbaninja]

I agree Joe Kickass does look like a freddy.

 

[greenterra]

The last shot of Joe Kickass screams Freddy to me.

 

[terd ferguson]

I agree Joe Kickass does look like a freddy.

The last shot of Joe Kickass screams Freddy to me.

That's what I thought too. It's just that he looks so different now. So yellow, that is. Captain Awesome and Joe Kickass are two different fishes (I think). And if they are, one has to be a loiselli and one has to be a freddy.

 

[cookiemonster]

I am a little confused by the last picture of Joe Kickass, but all the other picture of him look loisellei. Of course, there are many factors that affect a fish's coloration. If he looks like the majority of the pictures most of the time, than he is a loisellei. I am thrown off by the picture of friedrichsthallii you have found on the internet too. Here is a link to the freddy contest thread; you can see that these fish look very different than the internet picture:

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=139716&highlight=friedrichsthallii+contest

 

[terd ferguson]

I am a little confused by the last picture of Joe Kickass, but all the other picture of him look loisellei. Of course, there are many factors that affect a fish's coloration. If he looks like the majority of the pictures most of the time, than he is a loisellei. I am thrown off by the picture of friedrichsthallii you have found on the internet too. Here is a link to the freddy contest thread; you can see that these fish look very different than the internet picture:

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=139716&highlight=friedrichsthallii+contest

I was searching google images for a similar Parachromis fish like my last pic in my last post. I got that pic here...
http://www.cichlidae.be/c_parachromis_friedrichsthalii.htm

Joe Kickass is in real life visually different from Captain Awesome (who was identified as loiselli by knowledgeable members here on MFK). The colors, while similar are different. The body sheens are different colors on both fishes as is the worm markings on their faces. On Captain Awesome, the body sheen is blue/green and on Joe Kickass, it's a brighter yellow. The colors on the top of their backs (just under the dorsal fin) is different as well. On Captain Awesome, it's pinkish. On Joe Kickass is purpleish. These colors are amplified when shining a bright light on them. This may be why the last pic of Joe Kickass is throwing you for a loop.

I just want to say, cookiemonster, that I don't neccessarily think you're wrong in calling Joe Kickass a loiselli. I'm not sure myself. The loisellis and freddys look very similar to me and I've seen a lot that could be identified as either.

Give me a minute and I'll dig up my old thread for Captain Awesome's ID.

 

[terd ferguson]

Here is Captain Awesome's ID thread...
http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=107617
Everyone there said freddy. But later, in another thread with other pics, a very knowledgeable member said loiselli.

Here is Joe Kickass's ID thread. Everyone there also said freddy. Now, later, cookiemonster says loiselli.
http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=138487

Here's a quick video of the tank. I can't remember if it shows any good views of these two fishes, but it's got good music.


Ready to be more confused? Here's Captain Awesome in breeding trim with the guaranteed female loiselli.

They laid eggs many times and fertilized them although they never made it to hatching. Someone ate them. Coincidentally, the female loiselli has swapped mates and is now fat with eggs and doing a mating dance with Joe Kickass, little whore.

Give me a few more minutes and I'll dig up a bunch of photos of each and maybe we can work out who is what.

 

[killerfish]

all the top picks of joe kickass looked like female lois possibly a varient but the last one says it all its a freddy they can be pretty tuff to tell apart wait till it gets older and if it gets bars then it is a freddy

Cool tank BTW makes me miss my jaguar seeing yours take down all those goldfish

 

[terd ferguson]

Captain Awesome in December 2007...

Guaranteed female loiselli in October 2007, the same one as below with Captain Awesome. This was maybe a month after I bought her...

Guaranteed female loiselli in January 2008...

Captain Awesome in January 2008...

Captain Awesome in February 2008...

Captain Awesome and guaranteed female loiselli during breeding in March 2008...

Joe Kickass in April 2008 with tanklights off and a spotlight (1st night in my tank)...

Joe Kickass again same night...

Another view of Joe Kickass the same night...

That's all the pics I've got handy at the moment. The recent pics at the top of this thread were without flash and without a spotlight. I'll get some updated pics with the spotlight for a better comparison.

So who is what and what is who? And thanks for looking and thanks for this great forum.

 

[terd ferguson]

all the top picks of joe kickass looked like female lois possibly a varient but the last one says it all its a freddy they can be pretty tuff to tell apart wait till it gets older and if it gets bars then it is a freddy

Cool tank BTW makes me miss my jaguar seeing yours take down all those goldfish

Joe Kickass is definately all male, whether loiselli or freddy. He is now doing the mating dance with former Captain Awesome partner Lois (guaranteed female loiselli). Check out all the other pics I just posted and let me know what you think. And thanks for the kind words.