Couldn't agree with you guys more about keeping the system stable and not altering the water. My rays water is 8 ph and a tds from 600-800 and I keep a wide variety of rays even flowers and tigers. I even had a pregnant flower until I had another ray kill it. I was just lost on trying to figure out what measurements where more crucial for when moving from different tanks ect. I understand osmotic shock but didn't understand when people said ph doesn't really mean anything yet when I was new and tried to alter my tap water with ph down my tds wouldn't have changed really but my ph bounced and killed all 4 rays in that tank in less than 8 hours. So there must be some connection here, or I'm missing something
PH shock vs Tds Shock
- Thread starter skynoch
- Start date
what's in the water that keeps it at those levels?
I have to agree with Zoodiver also, I haven't tested my water for over 6-7 months. And don't plan on it.
I base everything on my rays behavior and maintain a very regimented WC schedule and that is it.
I base everything on my rays behavior and maintain a very regimented WC schedule and that is it.
Scott (skynoch) lives in the foothills of a limestone mountain range, hence the high TDS. Yet never any issues with his rays when kept in very hard, very high TDS water with a pH of 8.0 Big healthy rays that grow well & breed on a regular basis for him.
As Zoodiver stated, with most fish it's all about stability, not attempting to hit some type of magical numbers.
Scott - hard to say what happened in that one case when you used pH down, those types of acids neutralize some of the carbonate hardness, and the yo-yo'ing of the hardness may have been what caused their death. It may have even been just a bad reaction to the chemical that was used?
As Zoodiver stated, with most fish it's all about stability, not attempting to hit some type of magical numbers.
Scott - hard to say what happened in that one case when you used pH down, those types of acids neutralize some of the carbonate hardness, and the yo-yo'ing of the hardness may have been what caused their death. It may have even been just a bad reaction to the chemical that was used?
A person would hope that the ph down would not hurt a fish adversely but I was also using it wrong at first. Putting it in my tap water which would buffer anything coming in. I just assumed it was the ph bounce being the killer but maybe like you said it was another underlying chemical reaction from it. ThanksRD.;5129978; said:
pH is a very general measurement of a balance of cations and anions. If you don't know what is in the water to give you your pH reading than the pH reading is not worth much.
To give you an example, you can have two solutions with the same pH, lets say pH3. One solution could give you chemical burns the other would not. For instance, Coca-Cola I believe has a pH of about 3, and you can make up a solution of hydrochloric acid with a pH of 3 as well. Both would show the same pH reading but they each would have far different chemical potential.
Adding baking soda to increase pH should be safer than adding pH down as baking soda even in a concentrated form would not pose much health risk, were as pH down is generally sulfuric acid which even in very diluted forms can cause chemical burns and extreme chemical reactions as it has a much higher chemical potential.
Another example in terms of explaining the ion balance of pH is simple math.
(Example to show the idea, not true chemical balances)
Solution 1. cations 1000 + anions 5000
Solution 2. cations 1,000,000,000 + anions 5,000,000,000
Both would have the same pH value because they have the same ratio of ions, but obviously solution 2 has more chemical "potential".
So a solution of hydrochloric acid (high chemical potential) with a pH of... lets say 2 and a solution of lemon juice (much lower chemical potential) at the same pH of 2, obviously have the same pH value but have entirely different chemical capabilities and safeness.
To give you an example, you can have two solutions with the same pH, lets say pH3. One solution could give you chemical burns the other would not. For instance, Coca-Cola I believe has a pH of about 3, and you can make up a solution of hydrochloric acid with a pH of 3 as well. Both would show the same pH reading but they each would have far different chemical potential.
Adding baking soda to increase pH should be safer than adding pH down as baking soda even in a concentrated form would not pose much health risk, were as pH down is generally sulfuric acid which even in very diluted forms can cause chemical burns and extreme chemical reactions as it has a much higher chemical potential.
Another example in terms of explaining the ion balance of pH is simple math.
(Example to show the idea, not true chemical balances)
Solution 1. cations 1000 + anions 5000
Solution 2. cations 1,000,000,000 + anions 5,000,000,000
Both would have the same pH value because they have the same ratio of ions, but obviously solution 2 has more chemical "potential".
So a solution of hydrochloric acid (high chemical potential) with a pH of... lets say 2 and a solution of lemon juice (much lower chemical potential) at the same pH of 2, obviously have the same pH value but have entirely different chemical capabilities and safeness.
