Piranha

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only advance fish keepers know about the trick kev is talkin about. my point proven :ROFL:

what trick? circumcision via piranha?

not many people know about C.R.A.P most people only think about C.R.E.A.M

i don't even know what cream means. are they related?

for me, the relation is that when i eat any kind of cream, it makes me crap, lol
 
The red bellies are the easiest to get. I know that they are shoaling fish... Do you know where I could get the non shoalers you mentioned. Not like a local guy obviously, but online. I didn't think that the chicken would be healthy, but I saw it somewhere so I just figured I'd ask. What substrate would you recommend. I think they would look pretty hot with some black sand. Thanks for the info man.

aquascapeonline

Serrasalmus Sanchezi
 
Piranha's are group fish.
so you need at least 7 of them or they will be stressed to death.
so if you are planing on getting 7 a 300+ gallon tank will be in need because
they will get up to 12 inches.
For food i would recommend silver sides, prawns, fish meat ( tilapia ) and every once in a while good feeders ( wild caught )
 
hahaha, come on, you don't need a 300+ tank and a minimum of 7 for "piranhas"

oh man, funny thread.

so you should get 7 rhoms and put them in a 400 gallon tank? i still bet you'd end up with one rhom piranja
 
why? the op's original questions have been answered and this is where the discussion has taken us.

if i made a thread i'd put it in the piranha section but since we're in general aquaria where a whole different set of eyeballs will see it, i'd rather we discuss it out here, on here

Discuss what? Your opinion on why you think a Piranha is an intermediate fish? Is that your opinion? Or is it a beginner fish? Is a Piranha easy to keep? In your opinion is it so easy, just put it in a 20g, make sure the filtration is good and only feed it daily until it gets to say, 6", then cut back to what,twice weekly? Is it your opinion that that is easy, intermediate or advanced? Sounds fairly easy to me. Fair enough.
But lets take into consideration a few well known facts about the most popular Piranha available commercially, RBP. It gets big quickly. Most people, advanced aquarist alike, dont plan ahead well enough and usually get to a point were they have to much fish and not enough tank. We all have done that, even the pros out there. If you are in this hobby long enough, you might even try to keep very wrong species together for lack of room...but I digress.
Red Belly Piranha are a schooling or shoaling species. That means, as you know, they require companions. Whether or not you agree, schooling fish always benefit from having a school to be in. Whats constitutes a school? I would say common concensus would put that at around 6. Minimum. There is probably a lot who would say 4-5 but I feel 6 is more realistic in terms of quelling any dominance issues. It is well known that single or paired Piranhas are, at best, skittish. 3-4 and they become aggressive toward each other. A single one in a tank? Who knows? The potential for aggression from this fish, especially a skittish single...I wouldn't want my little kids putting their fingers in the tank...just sayin.
What to eat? Fresh meat. How fresh? Frozen? Live? I dont know. In the wild what do they eat? Frozen or live? Do they eat plants? No, meat. Carnivore....a fish after my own heart. Feeding a fish a specific diet doesnt necessarily make it advanced, but one could argue that a specific diet makes it a chore none the less. Are you really going to feed a Piranha pellets?
So, schooling fish of size requiring not only a spacious aquarium but special feeding requirements and handling techniques. Oh yeah, special handling techniques. I got bitin by a 12"RBP that went to the bone. Didnt even hurt. Teeth were so sharp, the bite didnt even bleed for several minutes. Then it was like a murder scene. Scared and scarred me. Scared me because I realized that this fish could have easily removed my finger. Yes, these fish require special handling and if that isnt all, they are able to jump out of their tank so then they REALLY need special handling. I dont know about anyone else, but a thrashing fish on the floor with scalpel sharp teeth is something for an advanced aquarist to handle.
So, as I see it,(through my eyes) Piranhas are best left to the advanced keeper. There are always exceptions to the rule and I'm sure you will state these quite eloquently, but the truth is, many attributes of this hobby are trial and error, but most husbandry practices are tried and true. Gold standard stuff. I will follow the advice of people much smarter than me and choose not keep a singular Red Bellied Piranha (in a 20g or 200g), and I certainly won't encourage irresponsible fish keeping just to answer a question of semantics.
 
First off, i never once said put a shoal of red belly piranhas in a 20 gallon tank. i merely asked what type of piranha he was considering. i've seen enough people take injured pygos from their shoal into a hospital tank and keep them there for fear of them getting reinjured that i have no qualms, fears or problems with people keeping a solo pygo. alot of the larger specimens i've seen are solo because they've lost their tankmates along the way. i'm not talking the typical 2 years old and under ones, but the 10+ years old pygos.

yes i agree PYGOS should be kept in a shoal but i wouldn't shoot down the idea of someone keeping one solo either. as far as the skill level or experience that someone would need to keep the basic breed and butter red belly, i don't think its truely any more difficult or advanced then keeping any other fish popular in the trade. Sure a lil attention and care is needed for handling (oddly i've kept a rhom and shoal of red bellies for 3 years now but have never been in a situation where i could be bit but obviously it happens) but its no more difficult then keeping a cichlid
 
yeah... I think a fish would be much happier competing for food daily.... and constantly being on guard worrying about fin nips of the dominant fish. the only reason piranhas "school" is for survival.... not because they enjoy the company. but on a side note.... a RBP assuming thats what we are talking about... will not be good for life..... probably not even a full year in a 20g tank. 40g breeder...... different story though.
 
Quoting OPEFE:

"piranhas do not shoal in the literal sense. Piranhas form groups or more specific a school of individuals having commonality. See further remarks my own opinion of pet stores and how they describe what they see."

http://www.opefe.com/piramix.html

There is absolutely nothing wrong with keeping a solo pygo. There is something wrong with keeping a fish crammed in a small tank though, so get a bigger tank if planning to keep any pygos. As ballin mentioned, look into a smaller serra species if tank space is an issue. But even the smallest serra species will outgrow a 20G.
 
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