Plastim rim on aquarium bottom uneven?

[BarroomHero]

Can you give us some detail about the stand… I have a picture in my mind (and on the screen )of what the tank is doing but understanding how the stand is built may help explain why…

If there is “excess silicone” built up between the tank and stand, this can cause in differential pressure on the bottom pane of glass which could in turn stress the seals. This also sounds like 100% poor manufacture ring. Everyone makes mistakes and it’s not the end of the world, but they should be willing to replace the faulty product…

As far as the LFS goes… you are not “returning an item” per the return policy… you are bringing them back something they sold you that is essentially broken… Be bold (yet polite) in your presentation that you need the tank replaced.

I wouldn’t say the manufacturer is being uncertain. Company representatives have to speak in terms to prevent accepting responsibility. I work for an Engineering firm and they actually ‘train’ us how to word things to do so. A lot of lawsuits are pushed one way or the other based on terminology.

So since they hold no liability due to the fact you are using a home made stand, they are definitely going to word things to keep it that way…

Just a note… have you ran a 4’ straight edge across the length of the stand to ensure the boards are perfectly flat? If the boards sag in the middle and the tank is perfectly flat… there should be a gap between the tank & stand.

Based on my understanding… Glass doesn’t “settle” well. It’s not meant to bend and that’s what “settling” means. It may not break as soon as it bends, but glass with even the slightest bends/twists becomes stressed and stressed glass is subject to cracking/shattering FAR easier than non stressed glass.

Note: I understand tempering is a process of “stressing” glass, but this is a very specific & controlled stress, not random stress such as a manufacturer defect.

The stand is built out of 1.5"x1.5"x.125 tube steel. The stand is as flat and level as possible, I have checked it with 3 different 6' levels and a 6' straight edge. If I hold a level or straight edge on the bottom edge of the aquarium rim on the long side it only touches the middle and there is a 1/16" or so gap at the corner between the rim and level. Hopefully that made sense lol.

The manufacturer doesnt seem to want to return the tank, they just keep saying its probably fine, that the excess silicone between the rim and tank will settle and it will level itself out. The LFS said they have sent an email to the manager of the company now and are waiting on a response.

By the way the glass on the bottom of this aquarium is annealed.

 

[Toby_H]

So the stand is confirmed flat and supports the edges of the tank all the way around…

I must admit we may be over analyzing this situation and it may be fine… But I cannot blame you at all for not being comfortable with 110 gallons of potential water damage and the price of the tank/fish being gambled on a “may be fine”…

If there is excess silicone between the glass and the plastic rim, This may cause in differential pressure at a seam causing stress on the silicone as well as the glass. If this is the case you may be able to simply remove the plastic rim and clean up excess silicone with a razor blade.

While you have the bottom trim off, verify that the glass box itself is square. I would be shocked if it wasn’t and this would clearly define the issue, and that it is an issue. Then review the plastic rim to ensure it’s equally thick without any bumps or disruptions. If the tank is flat/square… and the rim is equally thick… and the rim is flush to the glass… it only makes sense that the rim will be as flat/square as the glass…

1/16” out of square over the length of a couple feet sounds like a good bit to me. More than I would be comfortable ignoring based on the “it’ll probably be fine” recommendation of someone who shares no liability.

Stating very clearly, “I have discovered a manufacturer flaw in your product, please replace it or put it in writing that you will replace it if it fails”… is the approach I would take.

 

[12 Volt Man]

one thing to remember here is that the manufacturerer's tell us that glass tanks (not acrylic) really only need corner support. small gaps in the stand do not matter provided that the tank is flat and level.

now, keep in mind that supporting glass tanks by the corners only is not popular and scares the hell out of most people, but that has nothing to do with whether or not it is safe to do or not.

there was a thread on cichlidforum.com where a physics buff explained why glass tanks can be supported like this safely, but it got pretty technical.

I know that small gaps in between the stand and the tank in the middle of the tank are not a problem, provided the corners are well supported and the stand is flat and level.

I know this because I have been using steel tube stands for 20 years and every single one (including my current 150g) has a small gap in the middle of the tank. I have inquired about this and was told that steel, esp. welded stell, is seldom 100% straight. in 20 years of fishkeeping (with some large tanks) I have yet to have a tank even leak, let alone break (touches wood lol). I have talked to many others using similar steel stands and it seems everyone has the same thing happen - their glass tanks are floating in the middle.

Styro was not recommended by the manufacturer as it is not recommmended for modern glass tanks that have a floating bottom.It can lead to a cracked bottom panel apparently. My 150g is made by Aqueon (aka All-glass) and it sits directly on my steel tube stand.

these pics are interesting and go to show that even though it is not popular, what the manufacturers are saying is true: as long as the corners are well supported, and your tank is flat and level, you don't have to worry.

the point of all this is that as long as your tank is flat and level, and the corners are well supported, don't worry about small gaps. you should be fine..

 

[BarroomHero]

one thing to remember here is that the manufacturerer's tell us that glass tanks (not acrylic) really only need corner support. small gaps in the stand do not matter provided that the tank is flat and level.

now, keep in mind that supporting glass tanks by the corners only is not popular and scares the hell out of most people, but that has nothing to do with whether or not it is safe to do or not.

there was a thread on cichlidforum.com where a physics buff explained why glass tanks can be supported like this safely, but it got pretty technical.

I know that small gaps in between the stand and the tank in the middle of the tank are not a problem, provided the corners are well supported and the stand is flat and level.

I know this because I have been using steel tube stands for 20 years and every single one (including my current 150g) has a small gap in the middle of the tank. I have inquired about this and was told that steel, esp. welded stell, is seldom 100% straight. in 20 years of fishkeeping (with some large tanks) I have yet to have a tank even leak, let alone break (touches wood lol). I have talked to many others using similar steel stands and it seems everyone has the same thing happen - their glass tanks are floating in the middle.

Styro was not recommended by the manufacturer as it is not recommmended for modern glass tanks that have a floating bottom.It can lead to a cracked bottom panel apparently. My 150g is made by Aqueon (aka All-glass) and it sits directly on my steel tube stand.

these pics are interesting and go to show that even though it is not popular, what the manufacturers are saying is true: as long as the corners are well supported, and your tank is flat and level, you don't have to worry.

the point of all this is that as long as your tank is flat and level, and the corners are well supported, don't worry about small gaps. you should be fine..

According to this particular manufacturer their aquariums have to be supported around the entire perimeter or they will crack, says so in the instructions that came with the tank.

This manufacturer also uses annealed glass on the bottoms, whereas a lot of companies use tempered glass on the bottom which is considerably stronger.

And the problem here is that the tank touches in the middle, but nowhere else really, due to the tank trim sagging/bowing down in the middle along the bottom.

 

[Toby_H]

While I agree with what 12 Volt is explaining for conventional situations… I feel the OP’s personal situation is a bit different…

And the problem here is that the tank touches in the middle, but nowhere else really, due to the tank trim sagging/bowing down in the middle along the bottom.

Therefore either all the weight will rest on the middle and the ends will “wobble” (unlikely) or the tank will “settle” which means upward pressure will be applied to the bottom pane of glass where the “excessive silicone” is built up, or whatever is causing the disruption…

Aquariums which are designed to be supported along the edges (or corners) are not designed to deal with upward pressure on the bottom pane of glass.

This is the reason why manufacturers suggest against using Styrofoam. All too often people think “bigger is better” and if a 2” thick piece of Styrofoam is used then it can compress along the edges causing the bottom pane of glass to rest on the Styrofoam stressing the seals with upward pressure…

If (big if) the plastic frame is sitting flat against the glass box… then I feel this is one of the situations where Styrofoam between the frame and stand would be beneficial. This is because the Styrofoam will condense more in the middle where the pressure is higher allowing weight to be supported on the ends. This will not perfectly distribute the weight as it will be concentrated in the middle, but will do a far better job than letting the ends not touch the stand at all and will be better than forcing the glass to “settle” aka bend…

Just keep in mind the above concern about the bottom pane resting on foam…

 

[BarroomHero]

While I agree with what 12 Volt is explaining for conventional situations… I feel the OP’s personal situation is a bit different…



Therefore either all the weight will rest on the middle and the ends will “wobble” (unlikely) or the tank will “settle” which means upward pressure will be applied to the bottom pane of glass where the “excessive silicone” is built up, or whatever is causing the disruption…

Aquariums which are designed to be supported along the edges (or corners) are not designed to deal with upward pressure on the bottom pane of glass.

This is the reason why manufacturers suggest against using Styrofoam. All too often people think “bigger is better” and if a 2” thick piece of Styrofoam is used then it can compress along the edges causing the bottom pane of glass to rest on the Styrofoam stressing the seals with upward pressure…

If (big if) the plastic frame is sitting flat against the glass box… then I feel this is one of the situations where Styrofoam between the frame and stand would be beneficial. This is because the Styrofoam will condense more in the middle where the pressure is higher allowing weight to be supported on the ends. This will not perfectly distribute the weight as it will be concentrated in the middle, but will do a far better job than letting the ends not touch the stand at all and will be better than forcing the glass to “settle” aka bend…

Just keep in mind the above concern about the bottom pane resting on foam…

I just got some more info. According to the manufacturer I should put "cardboard or a similar hard, flat material and insert it in the spaces so they are full."

I bought a brand new tank so I wouldnt have to deal with BS, and now that is exactly what I am doing.

 

[Toby_H]

"cardboard or a similar hard, flat material and insert it in the spaces so they are full."

Should you use cardboard which is essentially paper... or somthing hard?

I would be very dissappointed in the manufacturer... and I would share the name of this poor quality manufacturer with others so they do not support such a company or even worse stumble into the same problem you are in...

I would push to exchange it... removing the bottom frame and investigating is an option but the LFS or manufacturer may use this as an excuse to not exchange the tank...

Upward pressure on the bottom pane is very bad news for any glass tank meant to be supported by the edges... and without a guarantee this is not going to happen I would not move forward...

 

[BarroomHero]

Should you use cardboard which is essentially paper... or somthing hard?

I would be very dissappointed in the manufacturer... and I would share the name of this poor quality manufacturer with others so they do not support such a company or even worse stumble into the same problem you are in...

I would push to exchange it... removing the bottom frame and investigating is an option but the LFS or manufacturer may use this as an excuse to not exchange the tank...

Upward pressure on the bottom pane is very bad news for any glass tank meant to be supported by the edges... and without a guarantee this is not going to happen I would not move forward...

The manufacturer is Visio Aquariums/Advance Aqua Tanks. I have actually heard good things about this company, and the tank looks nice, especially the seams. The recommendation of cardboard was a little strange though, this is the only company I have ever seen recommend shimming between a stand and tank.

 

[JAFRIAS]

sounds defective return it get another

 

[BarroomHero]

sounds defective return it get another

Thats what I am trying to do. The lfs contacted Visio, the lfs then told me that Visio wants pictures. So far I cant seem to figure out how to get a decent picture of the problem.