Please help. First ray into 360.

[Zoodiver]

Alright, I've skimmed the 6 pages and have a few things to offer.

1) Put the rays back where they were until the new tank is FULLY ready for them. Keep them there.

2) STOP adding Turbostart or anything else related to chemicals in the tank. Rushing the cycle by chemical addition is a waste. Especially when dealing with large scale tanks. You might get lucky and pull it off with a 20 gallon, but this is above and beyond that.

3) STOP doing waterchanges. One you've added some "aged" water from other tanks and mixed in "new" water. Just let it go for awhile. If there was any chlorine (or related chemicals) in the added water, it probably wiped out anything exhisting in the aged water.

4) I thought somewhere I read something about potscrubbies / biomedia in the over flows. This is a bad idea. Biomedia needs to be in the water stream AFTER the mechanical filter. Otherwise it's going to act as the mechanical filter, and need to be washed out - killing all the bacteria you are trying to grow. Only clean 'filtered' water should be flowing over them on it's way back into the tank.

Wiping the tank out at the start didn't really do anything.
Not filling and dumping the tank fully might hurt a little bit more in the long run.
I would have filled and dumped several times the first day, then run the tank full for a day or two, dumped it fully again, and then started filling it with the water the rays would be in. Who knows what chemicals you can leach out of acrlyic panals. Remember, the people making the acrylic don't know it's going for a fish tank. And I've even seen some tank companies use harsh cleaners on tanks prior to sale. that being said, you might also have the added speed bump of dealing with a chemical in the water that you can't test for on a home kit.

 

[abortedsoul]

Alright, I've skimmed the 6 pages and have a few things to offer.

Glad you're willing to help!

1) Put the rays back where they were until the new tank is FULLY ready for them. Keep them there.

We aren't planning on moving them into the 360 until the characteristic Nitrite spike ends. We have already moved the Aro to the 360, and we moved the healthiest ray from the 150 to our well-established tank.

2) STOP adding Turbostart or anything else related to chemicals in the tank. Rushing the cycle by chemical addition is a waste. Especially when dealing with large scale tanks. You might get lucky and pull it off with a 20 gallon, but this is above and beyond that.

We're done adding turbostart, but it is a biological addition- that is what it's designed for. I've cycled a 125 gallon in this way, and I watched a 600 gallon koi pond cycled quickly in a similar fashion. I appreciate skepticism, as a serious virtue, and it took quite a bit of evidence to change my attitude towards it as well. Not that I plan on adding anything else- just wanted to throw that out there.

3) STOP doing waterchanges. One you've added some "aged" water from other tanks and mixed in "new" water. Just let it go for awhile. If there was any chlorine (or related chemicals) in the added water, it probably wiped out anything exhisting in the aged water.

We have let it go for over 24 hours, and the ammonia in the 150 gallon is already down below .50ppm.

4) I thought somewhere I read something about potscrubbies / biomedia in the over flows. This is a bad idea. Biomedia needs to be in the water stream AFTER the mechanical filter. Otherwise it's going to act as the mechanical filter, and need to be washed out - killing all the bacteria you are trying to grow. Only clean 'filtered' water should be flowing over them on it's way back into the tank.

I figured as much. I was wondering if mech could be placed as an initial stage in the overflows, with light diffusor plates supporting the mech and biomedia to ensure that nothing blocks the bulkheads at the bottom. Thanks for the heads up, though! I'd hate to come home and see the pumps have burned themselves out.

Wiping the tank out at the start didn't really do anything.
Not filling and dumping the tank fully might hurt a little bit more in the long run.
I would have filled and dumped several times the first day, then run the tank full for a day or two, dumped it fully again, and then started filling it with the water the rays would be in. Who knows what chemicals you can leach out of acrlyic panals. Remember, the people making the acrylic don't know it's going for a fish tank. And I've even seen some tank companies use harsh cleaners on tanks prior to sale. that being said, you might also have the added speed bump of dealing with a chemical in the water that you can't test for on a home kit.

Once the tank gives indication that the cycling process is complete we will start doing small water changes to get any diffuse pollutants from manufacturing, followed by a few large ones to clean up the water a bit. After that, we'll check to make sure all is well with the biomedia and then go ahead on to add the rays.

Thanks for your help, ZD. Sound and well-reasoned advice, if I've ever heard it. Too bad I didn't think about the manufacturing trace chemicals, though, but I'm glad I'm more aware of it now!

 

[Zoodiver]

Yeah, I only say that stuff b/c it's what I've run into.
I had one system that was build wrong even though the people swore up and down it was done right. I did several doxen dump and fills before figuring out myself what they messed up. (We're talking a tank that took days to dump/fill each time).
And keep an eye on stuff. This early seems VERY soon for the real amm spike. It could be a false peak - which happens with big tanks.


If you want to protect the overflow drains at the bottom, look into making eggcrate grates for up at the top of the opening. They work well and are cheap. They won't clog up like scrubbies will, and anything that can pass through them won't jam up the overflow piping. You can find eggcrate at most home stores in the lighting section. It's used for that most of the time.

 

[abortedsoul]

Yeah, I only say that stuff b/c it's what I've run into.
I had one system that was build wrong even though the people swore up and down it was done right. I did several doxen dump and fills before figuring out myself what they messed up. (We're talking a tank that took days to dump/fill each time).
And keep an eye on stuff. This early seems VERY soon for the real amm spike. It could be a false peak - which happens with big tanks.


If you want to protect the overflow drains at the bottom, look into making eggcrate grates for up at the top of the opening. They work well and are cheap. They won't clog up like scrubbies will, and anything that can pass through them won't jam up the overflow piping. You can find eggcrate at most home stores in the lighting section. It's used for that most of the time.

Wow. So, what happened with your tank? Was it just a chemical?

Yeah, the ammonia definitely hasn't reached its peak yet.
Egg crate plastic does seem like a really good idea.

 

[Zoodiver]

It was a problem with leaching due to how part was treated....that resulted in a massive pH problem. It would hold for a day or a day and a half, then spike from 7 or so up to over 12 in the matter of 6 hours. Several hundred thousand dollar fix b/c someone took a short cut, then lied to cover it up.

Took me a couple weeks to trace the real issue. I kept seeing result of what could have been several problems. Had to keep ruling them out one by one.

 

[abortedsoul]

It was a problem with leaching due to how part was treated....that resulted in a massive pH problem. It would hold for a day or a day and a half, then spike from 7 or so up to over 12 in the matter of 6 hours. Several hundred thousand dollar fix b/c someone took a short cut, then lied to cover it up.

Took me a couple weeks to trace the real issue. I kept seeing result of what could have been several problems. Had to keep ruling them out one by one.

Wait, a pH of 12...? 12!?!?!?!? That is just plain crazy. What on earth could consistently change the pH of water that high that quickly? Drano® is another solution that is exactly that alkaline. 12?! I'm not saying that I don't believe you- just... wow. How did you fix it?

 

[csx4236]

Wait, a pH of 12...? 12!?!?!?!? That is just plain crazy. What on earth could consistently change the pH of water that high that quickly? Drano® is another solution that is exactly that alkaline. 12?! I'm not saying that I don't believe you- just... wow. How did you fix it?

Just a guess but if tank was built out of concrete of some kind it will leach and effect the PH.

 

[ShadowStryder]

Matt and Ashley, you are doing a nice job. Keep up the work and don't let the detracters get you down. We all have made mistakes along the way.
Even if there are a few who seem to forget that they have also.

 

[Zoodiver]

Just a guess but if tank was built out of concrete of some kind it will leach and effect the PH.

Correct, concrete rockwork. They lied and told me is was sealed. Then when I pushed them, I found out they skipped that part to save money in the end cost. Leaching calcium and lime right off the scale. So to save about $500, it cost more than triple over all because we had to gut the tank completely and start over.