Please help my sick arowana

  • We are currently upgrading MFK. thanks! -neo
The tank was never cycled obviously.

Based on what I've researched, I should be aiming for:

0 ammonia
0 nitrite
<20ppm nitrate
1-8dH water hardness
6.5pH

Is that correct?

What level of water hardness should I be aiming for? The guides are saying 0-140ppm of GH but Lupin is suggesting even higher. So what are the ideal numbers of every category exactly for my mix of fish?

Will freeze dried blood worms be ok instead of frozen ones?

How much crushed corals should I add? When should I run another water test to see if the crushed corals are the right amount?

I understand the soft water is causing the low pH, but what can I do about the ammonia, nirite and nitrate besides water changes? I read that tank cycling with fish is rather dangerous but I don't think I have much of a choice right now.

Should I add plants? What kind?

The folks on Craigslist are crazy; $250 for used 50 gallon tank and $500 for used 75 gallon tank. Petland discount has new 125 gallon glass tanks for $340 shipped. Would that be a decent deal? I have a mini van (Honda Odyssey) and a friend to help me carry stuff, so maybe I should look for another deal (bigger tank with stand)?

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Steps I'm going to take:
1) Buy water conditioners for frequent water changes (25% everyday)
2) Buy crushed corals and add that
3) Buy freeze dried blood worms and add a bit of chopped garlic to fish food.

Anything else I can do? This is actually quite fun, if only I had a permanent home for an aquarium...

Thanks again everyone for the endless stream of advice and help.
 
The pH will not matter to fish except when it is beyond the bracket of 6.0-8.6 but since I keep snails myself, I maintain my pH at 8.0 for the snails' sake rather than the fish since the fish can cope with just fine.

In regards to the hardness levels, I would aim for a dKH no lower than 4. The problem with very soft water is it is very unstable especially with the number of fish you have. With the number of fish you have, nitrate will pull down the pH making your water too acidic thus the fish suffers acidosis and some fish lack tolerance for extremely acidic conditions.

The amount of crushed corals added depends. Get a cupful of crushed corals and put it in your tank or filter. Monitor the pH and hardness levels using the API liquid test kits. Be sure to clean the vials thoroughly after every test since I notice with the pH test kits, the chemicals used to test seem to stick and possibly influence the outcome of the tests making it slightly inaccurate.

Cycling using the fish is indeed dangerous. Your fish suffer ammonia and nitrite intoxication during the beginning of the nitrogen cycle which will also make them more prone to health issues where their internal organs especially gills are being damaged by the toxic effects of both substances. If I were you, ask a friend or LFS for their established filter media to seed your tank thus enabling the nitrogen cycle to establish itself as quickly as possible. This will save your fish from further harm. Remember that fish already subjected to the extremities tend to live a very short time due to organ damage.

Yes, you may add plants if you like. Plants also help cope with the ammonia and nitrite. What is your lighting? I like to use fast growing plants such as Egeria densa and hornworts. Low lighting and relatively undemanding plants will include anubias, Java moss, Java ferns, Nymphaea lotus and Cryptocoryne sp. They are very easy to keep.

Regarding the food, you could use freeze dried stuff but fish seem to prefer frozen ones as these are fresher and they contain more nutrients than the freeze dried stuff. Your key to a healthy diet is a varied diet. You have the option to feed your fish vegetables, beefheart, krills, scallops, bloodworms, chopped earthworms, crickets, mosquito larva, daphnia, commercial foods and everything else.

I must warn you that most commercial foods are complete garbage containing plenty of starch to manipulate the guaranteed analysis particularly protein content therefore, a waste of time and money. If you want your money's worth, stick to the products by Kensfish.com, Hikari, NLS, Omega, Dainichi and Mazuri. They may be expensive but in the end, they are totally worth providing your fish. I avoid flakes. The vitamins are water soluble making pellets a much worthier investment than flakes since pellets store the vitamins much better than the flakes can.

If you want to try homemade gel foods too, let me know and I will post the recipe for you.
 
I think Lupin and everyone here answered most of your questions, but I will offer my input as to what you're doing is absolutely awesome. Our hobby needs more people like you, and I really do think you'd enjoy the hobby if you got yourself a tank. Good luck with whatever you do, and I hope you get the fish to a respectable home or you get a nice big tank for yourself!
 
Revised tank reading after a water change and putting in stones that are supposed to lower ammonia and raise water hardness.

GH: 180
KH: 80
pH: 7
No2: 0
NO3: 40
Ammonia: .5

I also tested my tap water:
GH: 0
KH: 40
pH: 6.5 (can't be right...)

I think I'm getting closer to my desired goal, but what the hell is up with the ammonia reading? I stirred up some sediments today accidentally while putting in the rocks, so maybe that contributed to it.

Questions:
Anything else I should tweak according to my chart above?

The sick arowana looks even worse today. He's still rubbing his mouth against the tank. His fins look slight worse off and his mouth is now missing a chunk of his mouth. I've applied medication already but there doesn't seem to be much change. I'm going apply the 2nd and last dose of the medication tomorrow and a 50% water change. At least he ate a little bit today. I know Lupin said to wait a few days before jumping to Maracyn but I'm not so sure the fish can last that long. The good news is that besides the messed up mouth and fins, the rest of the body looks fine, no white dots anywhere yet, so maybe not ICH. Any other ideas without taking scrapings and looking at it under a microscope?

A DkM of 4 is about 70ppm according to this:
http://www.saltyzoo.com/SaltyCalcs/AlkConv.php
Correct?

Putting the Oscar up for adoption at the marketplace right now, anybody in NYC willing to provide a good home for it?

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Thanks for the encouragement Essy, I'm looking for a big tank right this moment. :)

Lupin: Thanks so much for the food list and plant list, I will stock up on a variety. Also thanks for the detailed explanation on the relationship between pH and nitrate/hardness. How long have you been doing this in order to glean so much information? I'm absolutely amazed.
 
If the aro still seems a bit reluctant to eat, try mixing some minced garlic i to his food. Garlic is an appetite stimulant and helps fish fight off disease.
 
What stones did you use? Limestone? If you were using anything that comprises mostly calcium carbonate, then the results of pH and hardness levels are indeed correct. Calcium carbonate influences both the pH and hardness levels by elevating them. Most stuff from the sea particularly bleached corals, sand and seashells are made up of calcium carbonate. Your calculations on hardness levels are about right. You could also read this if you have not yet.
http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/hardness.htm

Stirring the sediment does increase ammonia for a moment since there are wastes trapped in the bottom which will not touch to the water column. You will notice most people complain they find their nitrate building up after stirring the substrate around as a result of wastes going to the water column.

From your update about the arowana especially with missing portion of the mouth, I have an ominous feeling about this fish. Do you have photos of the mouth? I'd like to see that extent of damage. If he does not improve in the next few days going downhill instead, then our last option is do euthanasia on the fish. As cruel as it sounds, this is a much better option than let the fish suffer through its life after being subjected through the deteriorating water quality.

When doing euthanasia, use clove oil and grain alcohol. This is the most humane method. Even then, the overdose of clove oil or Finquel would still kill the fish slowly as it loses consciousness. For more information, see this.
Euthanasia

Considering your fish seems to be going downhill faster than I expected, yes, I do think it's a good call to treat with antibiotics instead. In the meantime, keep up with their diet and maintain clean water quality. Both will help the arowana immensely in recovering as quickly as possible.

I am glad you decided to get rid of the oscar. As much as you might have preferred to keep it, there are times we have to sacrifice what we have for the better. In this case, I'd also rehome the oscar if I were in this dilemma especially as you may not feel you would enjoy the fish by himself in the long run.

I had my breaks from the hobby a couple of times and decided to return to the hobby in the early 2006. That was the time I started building up my hobby with more interesting fish and at the same time, marred with problems relating to health issues of my fish, thanks to my luck. I had very difficult decisions done and lessons learned. Just like other hobbyists, I still have a lot to learn and I am not ashamed to admit that. I also happen to be an avid reader taking my time to read through my books and online references to compile my references aside from my experiences. That's how you get to learn everything. All it takes is patience and you will eventually get there.

Right now, I am back to basics keeping mostly goldfish, loaches and snails. Actually, I never imagined before the hobby would be a bit complex. Like Liz (Red Devil) correctly pointed out, it is not all about putting a lot of fish in a simple glass box and then simply watch until they fall dead the next day. The hobby is more complex and there are still plenty of things I really wish to learn.
 
I used AquaClear Filter Insert Ammonia Remover (formerly AquaClear 150) to bring the pH up and remove Ammonia. The storeclerk recommended this because there wasn't any crushed corals.

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Here are the pics of the Arowana:

fish2.jpg


It's incredibly hard taking photos of a moving fish in crappy lighting condition and on a slow lens, so I drew a simple diagram in case the photo isn't clear:

fish1.jpg


He's also developed a little bit of a white lining on the edge of the damaged part of the fins. Actually the edges turned black followed by a thin white line on the outermost edge. Bad news I persume.

The good news is that he's pooping quite a bit, it looks like a healthy reddish brown.
 
I am not sure the ammonia remover increases the pH. Does it actually do that job? I don't like to recommend ammonia removers and such. If you were attempting to have the ammonia removed, you are also starving the bacteria that is converting it into nitrite and then nitrate. As much as possible, just stick to water changes if you detect high ammonia and nitrite.

Take the store employees' advice with a grain of salt. In general, their advice is none to reliable. If in doubt with their advice, take down notes and try to double check their advice for validity and reliability on the internet.

The black edges on the fins mean your fish's fins may be recovering after all. Keep up with the water changes. Poor water quality often is responsible for finrot and clean water is the only way to counter that issue.

I forgot to answer your issue about tank deals. The Craiglist options are over the line to me. What else were included with the 50g and 75g packages? The Petland package seems okay to me and better if it includes stand, filtration system, etc.

What lighting do you use? I prefer to use daylight fluorescent tubes. Are you using incandescents? Incandescents are old hats and have the wrong spectrum of light for plants if you do plan to keep plants and give off too much heat.
 
I'm not using any lighting currently. Should I be unless I get plants?

Petland package don't include anything besides the tank, no top, no lighting, no stand. I'm just going to keep searching on craigslist.

I found a taker for the Oscar assuming he comes today. And the healthy arowana is being traded to a pet store for credit so I can buy more equipment. Any chance I can house the 3 parrot cichlids in a 55G tank and the 2 gourami and 1 angle fish in the 30G tank? I still need to figure out what to do with the sick arowana assuming he survives.

Just applied the last dose of the medication and he looks pretty much the same if not worse after a daily water change. Based on the photos should I jump to the Maracyn tomorrow or wait a few more days? He's not eating again unfortunately.
 
Consitering how bad he sounds I would start the Maracyn right away. Certianly can't hurt. You would be suprised what fish can recover from given the right contitions. I had a catfish that got fin rot when I first started in the hobby and I didn't catch it right away because I didn't know any better. At his worst he had no scales/skin on his head and almost no fins left. I still have him and the only lasting physical effect I can see is that one of his fins when it grew back didn't attach back to the bone all the way so it kinda flaps on the end now. Doesn't seem to bother him though. Anyway my point is not to give up on him yet! you may still be able to save him.

the 3 parrot cichlids in a 55G tank and the 2 gourami and 1 angel fish in the 30G tank should work for now. The parrots and the angel will eventually out grow them but I thing the gouramis should be able to live in the the 30gal. Correct me if I'm wrong guys! I'm no expert.

Good Luck!
 
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