Please help. red tail cat quarantining ...

[jjohnwm]

if its a pond anaeroboic bacteria that built up duringan ammonia spike could deplete the nitrates but the bacteria would soon die off without excess nutrients to use.

Hmmm....glib answer, but to me this sounds pretty far-fetched. An ammonia spike that lasted long enough for a population of anaerobic (or "anaeroboic") bacteria to miraculously arise would almost certainly kill everything in the pond. What is the link you are drawing between ammonia levels and anaerobic bacteria?

Inaccurate testing seems like a far more likely reason for a zero nitrate reading.

Can any experienced keepers chime in here? duanes F fishdance leap to mind...others?

 

[djsaltynuts]

Hmmm....glib answer, but to me this sounds pretty far-fetched. An ammonia spike that lasted long enough for a population of anaerobic (or "anaeroboic") bacteria to miraculously arise would almost certainly kill everything in the pond. What is the link you are drawing between ammonia levels and anaerobic bacteria?

Inaccurate testing seems like a far more likely reason for a zero nitrate reading.

Can any experienced keepers chime in here? duanes F fishdance leap to mind...others?

one short lasting spike definitely wouldnt build up enough ill admit that, however lots of spikes over years in a pond with a bog filter or large sand filter isnt hard to imagine at all. he more likely just has low nitrates and said zero to simply end the nitrate conversation(even if you dont shake up the fluids for testing the water it still usually will display a relatively accurate level of nitrate ive tested this myself you can do the same if you don’t believe me). i have several tanks that sit near negative nitrate and i believe it to do with philodendrons and extremely deep substrate with an eggcrate light diffuser under the substrate as well as an airstones under the eggcrate so its definitely possible even in small bodies of water. however to start this process i poured 4 bottles of old fish food into the water which created ammonia too high to test for and would likely kill any fish besides anabantoids so you may have somewhat of a point. did you just learn about the word glib and decide to throw it in there because you liked how it sounded? in what way were my words fluent and voluble but insincere and shallow. you couldve just used a word you have a better understanding of like unlikely. im sure you can find a much more comfortable place to stick your semicolons and words like glib.

 

[Rexparents]

It looks like it could be a bad case of ammonia burn followed by a case of external parasitic or bacterial illness.

Melafix and pimafix won't do, not that they do anything probably anyway.

At this point I'd do a MicrobeLift Broad Spectrum Disease Treatment (BSDT) and try to figure out the root cause of this occurrence.

im going to try this as well. Melafix hasn’t done really much, he actually is doing a lot worse. I ended up taking him out for30 mins in salt bath but I don’t want to over medicate him either.

Can I use this in quarantine tank ? Beforehand 80% water change ?

You can try a salt water bath......that can kill parasites. Can you add a UV filter? What is you PH..... doesn't look like a PH problem but if it's way outta whack...maybe. Should be 6.8-7.2.

Also did you take out any carbon from your filter? If not it will take the medicine out of the water very quickly.

I removed carbon and stop filtering during the salt doseage

 

[thebiggerthebetter]

The fish even in the OP photos is in a dire, advanced state, real bad shape.

Yes, MicrobeLift BSDT can be used in-situ fine, as a long term bath.

I don't find any basis for talking about ponds and anaerobic bacteria. The OP hasn't stated what his primary enclosure for the fish is or if there is even substrate or how deep it is, etc. etc. We unfortunately are going on very little info from the OP. One thing is clear though, having ammonia spikes means the setup leaves much to be desired. It strongly reminds me of my beginning years in the habit of keeping large fish in large quantities. The OP primary nitrification is not working long term, not stable, that's what killing his fish, why are we squaring swords over nitrates and anaerobes? It's strange to me at least. Let's focus on that truck flying 100 MPH into our face and forget for a bit about the potholes...

Far, far most usually, people don't test nitrates right, or confuse them with nitrites, and reporting zero nitrates is a common red flag that something is wrong, either with the system or with the keeper and how they test.

As a mod, I please, ask you to stay civil and choose words more carefully, address others the way you wanna be addressed. Think of yet others too - we don't want to waste our times reading an exchange of witty unpleasanties...

 

[Rexparents]

The fish even in the OP photos is in a dire, advanced state, real bad shape.

Yes, MicrobeLift BSDT can be used in-situ fine, as a long term bath.

I don't find any basis for talking about ponds and anaerobic bacteria. The OP hasn't stated what his primary enclosure for the fish is or if there is even substrate or how deep it is, etc. etc. We unfortunately are going on very little info from the OP. One thing is clear though, having ammonia spikes means the setup leaves much to be desired. It strongly reminds me of my beginning years in the habit of keeping large fish in large quantities. The OP primary nitrification is not working long term, not stable, that's what killing his fish, why are we squaring swords over nitrates and anaerobes? It's strange to me at least. Let's focus on that truck flying 100 MPH into our face and forget for a bit about the potholes...

Far, far most usually, people don't test nitrates right, or confuse them with nitrites, and reporting zero nitrates is a common red flag that something is wrong, either with the system or with the keeper and how they test.

As a mod, I please, ask you to stay civil and choose words more carefully, address others the way you wanna be addressed. Think of yet others too - we don't want to waste our times reading an exchange of witty unpleasanties...

thanks for your advice!! I’m going to get my hands on that stuff and hopefully gets him back to somewhat normal. I apologize My fiancé is the fish guy so I’m sorry for the lack of information, I’m just a concerned catfish mom and he was our first monster fish lol. he started out in a 55 gallon. We use sand substrate and it’s about 150 gallons.
nitrates are below 20 ppm.
Ph level is 7
We do use the api freshwater kit for testing and wait the allotted time, I’m pretty good at that.
we had ammonia spike but was taken care of immediately and back to regular water parameters but he was affected pretty badly.
we put him in a 70 gal tank to quarantine now with a fluVal fx6 filter with new biomedia and followed regular cycling measures.
Hopefully that helped?
I’ll keep you updated and hopefully he pulls through and I deff will be back with more questions.
Thank you!!!

 

[thebiggerthebetter]

There is still a LOT of info we'd need to process your situation right and offer better help. I could post a comprehensive questionnaire if you'd like to fill out what you can.

If the RTC was the only fish in the 150 gal, why move it to QT?

How big is the RTC? If it is like 2 feet, it has long outgrown that 150 gal and that would explain the ammonia spike(s).

New biomedia doesn't contain beneficial bacteria.

 

[esoxlucius]

I immediately checked the other cats in the pond

We use sand substrate and it’s about 150 gallons.

Your fish, Rex, has what looks like severe ammonia burn. You stated you had an ammonia spike so that one is pretty easy to nail down.

What i'm struggling to get my head around though is the two quotes above.

It seems the "pond" is 150g, which is crazy crazy small for an RTC, but even crazier is the fact you've got other "cats" in the pond with Rex!!!!

No wonder you have ammonia, the bio load must be off the charts. You need an upgrade in the region of, well i can't even comment on that because I don't know what "other" fish you have, but, as an example, you could be looking at 1000g plus to house all your fish in the correct manner.

You need to act seriously fast. Both your quarantine tank and "pond" are in no way adequate for an animal that can reach 4 foot!!!

 

[thebiggerthebetter]

Right. Seems like I missed that "pond" mention.

Like I had said too, there is so much unknown here but it's the OP's right to share what they want to share and to ask what they want to ask.

OMhumO, what we are seeing was started by the ammonia burn but now it seems like secondary infection.

 

[Rexparents]

Rex is doing well in quarantine and is almost fully healed, and now is eating and passing food regularly. Thanks for everyone’s tips.