Plywood, PVC Board, Dryloc, Acrylic and Illinois winters

  • We are currently upgrading MFK. thanks! -neo
Should also add that one has to account for the work & learning curve associated with different sealers. Beginners sometimes mess up mixing epoxy properly and wetting out fiberglass is really no fun at all.

The rubber type coatings can be pretty thick but no accurate mixing is required. But they take more coats and there is the glass or acrylic installation issues since silicone won't stick to it and it won't stick to silicone.

Sheet plastics would require accurate cutting but more importantly very careful attention would need to be paid to the corners which take a lot of stress in a tank. And silicone does not bond super well with many plastics.

Polyester and vinyl ester resins have horrible solvent odors and can gum up quickly if too much catalyst is added. But they are cheap and a good way to build a composite structure and get a good thick layer of protection.

Epoxy paint, like Sweetwater, are easy to apply and real world results suggest they waterproof well at thin dry mil thickness' which brings the cost down. But again they have a solvent odor issue and require haz-mat shipping.

So my point is that there is no perfect sealer.

I've built plywood tanks with epoxy resin, epoxy paint and fiberglass resin. Never used the rubber/bituminous compounds on plywood but have applied them to concrete walls. I've also applied drylok to walls and have used it to seal a plywood cage. I've built cages out of sheet plastic but never lined a water holding tank with them but have a good idea of how I'd do it. The upshot being is I think they all have their downfalls regardless of cost.

Short of paying somebody a lot of money to spray with polyurea, I don't know what I'd use if building a large plywood tank today.
 
great pointers...thanks...but a sheet of pvc at 3mm for me runs just under $25, hence the appeal of it. I need to find my contact for spray plastic that they recommend using a cheap $45 spray gun from home depot for application. I had a sample that they shipped me sprayed onto styrofoam...it was very strong...took a bb at point blank range at 450 fps to puncture it...i'll see if i can find his info...it was very impressive stuff...again...it is a product made for the sign industry...to prep plywood for vinyling or harden up styrofoam for 3d signs...i'm guessing it's fish safe...
 
great pointers...thanks...but a sheet of pvc at 3mm for me runs just under $25, hence the appeal of it. I need to find my contact for spray plastic that they recommend using a cheap $45 spray gun from home depot for application. I had a sample that they shipped me sprayed onto styrofoam...it was very strong...took a bb at point blank range at 450 fps to puncture it...i'll see if i can find his info...it was very impressive stuff...again...it is a product made for the sign industry...to prep plywood for vinyling or harden up styrofoam for 3d signs...i'm guessing it's fish safe...

Sounds good. Are you going to use a vacuum bag to "clamp" the expanded PVC to the plywood with this adhesive? Or can use you just use a laminate roller?

And how are you going to do the corners? Some sort of paintable caulk and then drylok over that?

I would look into polyurethane caulks if that's the case.

If you're curious I can paint a scrap piece of expanded PVC with some drylok tomorrow. I should have some of both in my shop.
 
for the spray, it's a polyurethane type of 2 part liquid plastic that you mix and spray and it hardens into solid almost ABS type of plastic that can be sprayed right onto the plywood. if memory serves me right, it's a 1:1 ratio and "1 gallon" is actually 2 gallons once mixed. I believe it was sold for $90ish for "1 gallon" but I'll see if I can dig up the info tomorrow or wednesday. Being a sign shop...i've got plenty of pvc laying around...and an unopened gallon of drylok...but you are more than welcome...save me the hassle of prying open the drylok :-P
 
i was able to find my sample of Styrospray 1000 from http://www.industrialpolymers.com. it's a 2 part polyurethane. comes in 2 quart (1quart part a and 1 quart part b) or 2 gallon (about $115 and should cover about 150 sq feet) anywho...here is my sample that they sent me...
IMAG2003.jpg

it's very flexible at thin layers and very stiff at thicker coats. I know liquid rubber has had some great success here as well as fiberglass, but liquid rubber scares me because it seems soft and rip-able and fiberglass is so damn toxic to work with...i wonder if this is a happy medium? it adheres to the plywood very well... basically the more porous the substrate the stronger it binds to it...definatly gonna be trying it out soon as waterproofing and maybe start with a 3d back ground...
here is a silly video of the product...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5bBQY_lma0
 
i was able to find my sample of Styrospray 1000. it's a 2 part polyurethane.

Styrospray 1000 is a 2k polyurea, not a 2k polyurethane. Polyurea has been used to seal both outdoor ponds and plywood tanks, including at least one build here on MFK.

So two gallons for $115 and that covers 150 square feet? That's about 20 mils of dry/cured film thickness since polyurea is 100% solids.

I only poked around their site a little bit but I'm amazed it can be applied with a hopper gun. Typically polyurea can only be applied with very specialized high pressure equipment.

A couple of problems with typical polyurea is that silicone doesn't stick to it and it cures very quickly. But if this stuff is paintable it might form a decent bond with silicone. And since it can be sprayed with a hopper gun the setup time must be slower.

If it were me I'd come up with a plan to attach the glass or acrylic first and then spray polyurea over that and slightly onto the window. You'd want to use a polyurethane caulk so the polyurea would bond to it. I would not trust polyurea to bond to cured silicone for sure. That's how the guy who used polyurea here on MFK did it but I don't know if it's still holding water.

Intriguing stuff. Seems to overcome some of the typical issues and cost of regular polyurea.
 
If it were me I'd come up with a plan to attach the glass or acrylic first and then spray polyurea over that and slightly onto the window.

One build I know of in particular siliconed the glass in the tank then made a nice silicone bead around the edge of the window and smoothed it out, thus allowing the sealant to be painted/sprayed over the top and slightly overlapping the glass. The bead mad it so there was no major sharp edges to cause structural fail in the sealant.
 
Styrospray 1000 is a 2k polyurea, not a 2k polyurethane. Polyurea has been used to seal both outdoor ponds and plywood tanks, including at least one build here on MFK.

So two gallons for $115 and that covers 150 square feet? That's about 20 mils of dry/cured film thickness since polyurea is 100% solids.

I only poked around their site a little bit but I'm amazed it can be applied with a hopper gun. Typically polyurea can only be applied with very specialized high pressure equipment.

A couple of problems with typical polyurea is that silicone doesn't stick to it and it cures very quickly. But if this stuff is paintable it might form a decent bond with silicone. And since it can be sprayed with a hopper gun the setup time must be slower.

If it were me I'd come up with a plan to attach the glass or acrylic first and then spray polyurea over that and slightly onto the window. You'd want to use a polyurethane caulk so the polyurea would bond to it. I would not trust polyurea to bond to cured silicone for sure. That's how the guy who used polyurea here on MFK did it but I don't know if it's still holding water.

Intriguing stuff. Seems to overcome some of the typical issues and cost of regular polyurea.

i was able to find my sample of Styrospray 1000 from http://www.industrialpolymers.com. it's a 2 part polyurethane. comes in 2 quart (1quart part a and 1 quart part b) or 2 gallon (about $115 and should cover about 150 sq feet) anywho...here is my sample that they sent me...
IMAG2003.jpg

it's very flexible at thin layers and very stiff at thicker coats. I know liquid rubber has had some great success here as well as fiberglass, but liquid rubber scares me because it seems soft and rip-able and fiberglass is so damn toxic to work with...i wonder if this is a happy medium? it adheres to the plywood very well... basically the more porous the substrate the stronger it binds to it...definatly gonna be trying it out soon as waterproofing and maybe start with a 3d back ground...
here is a silly video of the product...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5bBQY_lma0

I think you both are on the right track thinking about polyurea. Did either of you use Styrospray? I ordered some to put on foam backgrounds for my tank. I called the company today, and contrary to their website, Stryospray is not 100% polyurea. I was told there were "additives" such as Titanium, Zinc Oxide, Silicone, which are not disclosed in the MDSD sheets. I was told that it had some mold inhibitors. I am going to use the product on my foam sheets for DIY backgrounds The backgrounds will be painted and then painted and sealed with a clear epoxy paint. I am a little put out that this is not full disclosure on this product.

If I were doing a DIY tank build, I would pay a contractor to spray my tank with polyurea. I really think polyurea is the way to go. I am a little put out that Industrial Polymers won't/can't give a statement on whether or not their product is fish safe.
 
I think you both are on the right track thinking about polyurea. Did either of you use Styrospray? I ordered some to put on foam backgrounds for my tank. I called the company today, and contrary to their website, Stryospray is not 100% polyurea. I was told there were "additives" such as Titanium, Zinc Oxide, Silicone, which are not disclosed in the MDSD sheets. I was told that it had some mold inhibitors. I am going to use the product on my foam sheets for DIY backgrounds The backgrounds will be painted and then painted and sealed with a clear epoxy paint. I am a little put out that this is not full disclosure on this product.

If I were doing a DIY tank build, I would pay a contractor to spray my tank with polyurea. I really think polyurea is the way to go. I am a little put out that Industrial Polymers won't/can't give a statement on whether or not their product is fish safe.

A 2k polyurea that is paintable, can be sprayed from a hopper gun and costs under $60 per gallon sounded too good to be true. I was scratching my head on that one. Thank you for the information.

I never intended to try it in a plywood tank but was curious to see if the TS here was going to try it. I thought about ordering some for other projects and possibly building a small test tank but I didn't have time this summer.

So what are you going to do? Cancel the order or test it for fish safeness when you get it?

Why are you choosing this over Drylok for your background?
 
A 2k polyurea that is paintable, can be sprayed from a hopper gun and costs under $60 per gallon sounded too good to be true. I was scratching my head on that one. Thank you for the information.

I never intended to try it in a plywood tank but was curious to see if the TS here was going to try it. I thought about ordering some for other projects and possibly building a small test tank but I didn't have time this summer.

So what are you going to do? Cancel the order or test it for fish safeness when you get it?

Why are you choosing this over Drylok for your background?


I actually wanted to go with a painted polyurea sheet for my backgrounds. There is a 3D background company that uses polyurea with crushed rock for 3D rock backgrounds. Two different companies tried a total of four times to make the sheets for me (I paid for two of them). The problem with using polyurea as a background sheet is that nothing sticks to polyurea. To overcome this problem, I was going to paint PVC primer on the polyurea, then have the backgrounds painted with acrylic paints, and then paint over everything with a clear fish-safe epoxy paint. The first two polyurea sheets had hundreds of holes which would have needed to be repaired or my painted background could have delaminated. The fourth sheet was too thick and could not even be clamped flat on plywood, using about 30 clamps. There was no way that we would have been able to silicone the polyurea to the tank walls when we couldn't even get it to lie flat on plywood, so we had to scratch that plan.

We are now going with foam sections which will be much easier to deal with in the tank 15' x 4'. My initial thought was to use Polygem, a fish-safe epoxy putty, which I already have. It would be a labor-intensive project to mix up putty for 15' x 4' and two 4' x 4' (slightly smaller dimensions than that) and apply it to the foam. When I came across Styrospray last week, it seemed like a really great solution. I came across it while doing an online search on DIY 3D backgrounds. I'm going to have to find the article and see what happened.
 
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