Poison dart frog keepers- a few questions before I make the "jump".

  • We are currently upgrading MFK. thanks! -neo
O

O2surplus

Gambusia
MFK Member
Feb 9, 2010
128
0
16
yorba linda, ca.
I've been keeping high-tech planted tanks for the last 20 years and have become bored. I recently started to do research on poison dart frog husbandry and am really tempted to give it a try. I want to convert my 225 gallon aquarium into a suitable home for frogs - BUT I have a few questions.

1. Which species is best for a beginner?

2. Given the tank volume - how many frogs can be housed comfortably?
( The tank will be heavily planted w/ bromeliads,ferns, mosses ect..)

3. I would like to have a water feature, maybe a water fall flowing into a small pond on one end of the tank. Are Dart Frogs really that poor of a swimmer?

4. Do Dart frogs require UVB light to remain healthy or will vitamin suppliments be all that is necessary? I ask because I would love to retain my custom built LED lighting, if possible.

Thanks in advance for your replies:grinno:
 
O2surplus;4685548; said:
I've been keeping high-tech planted tanks for the last 20 years and have become bored. I recently started to do research on poison dart frog husbandry and am really tempted to give it a try. I want to convert my 225 gallon aquarium into a suitable home for frogs - BUT I have a few questions.

1. Which species is best for a beginner?

2. Given the tank volume - how many frogs can be housed comfortably?
( The tank will be heavily planted w/ bromeliads,ferns, mosses ect..)

3. I would like to have a water feature, maybe a water fall flowing into a small pond on one end of the tank. Are Dart Frogs really that poor of a swimmer?

4. Do Dart frogs require UVB light to remain healthy or will vitamin suppliments be all that is necessary? I ask because I would love to retain my custom built LED lighting, if possible.

Thanks in advance for your replies:grinno:
Click to expand...

1. Larger species like D. azureus, D. leucomelas, D. tinctorius, and D. auratus are good for begginers.

2. Depending on the dimensions of your tank, you could have a decent sized group in your setup.

3. From what I have seen personally, dart frogs can swim, but not very well, it is best to keep the water level low enough that it is more like a wading pool than a pond.

4. I don't think dart frogs require UV radiation but I'm sure that the plants would appreciate it.
 
O2surplus;4685548; said:
I've been keeping high-tech planted tanks for the last 20 years and have become bored. I recently started to do research on poison dart frog husbandry and am really tempted to give it a try. I want to convert my 225 gallon aquarium into a suitable home for frogs - BUT I have a few questions.

1. Which species is best for a beginner?

2. Given the tank volume - how many frogs can be housed comfortably?
( The tank will be heavily planted w/ bromeliads,ferns, mosses ect..)

3. I would like to have a water feature, maybe a water fall flowing into a small pond on one end of the tank. Are Dart Frogs really that poor of a swimmer?

4. Do Dart frogs require UVB light to remain healthy or will vitamin suppliments be all that is necessary? I ask because I would love to retain my custom built LED lighting, if possible.

Thanks in advance for your replies:grinno:
Click to expand...

1. Normally I would recommend D. auratus or tinctorius for beginners but based on the tank you have I would say that a group of Terribilis would be the way to go. They are relatively forgiving in care requirements, they get big, are bold and do well in groups...biggest drawback is the price (expect at least $75-100 each).

2. Tank dimensions are needed to really say here. Many of the larger dart frogs spend most of their time on the ground and as such the footprint of the tank dictates how many could be in there. Auratus and tinctorius (including azureus) are highly territorial and even in a tank that size I would not keep more than a few pairs of either. Leucomelas do a little better in groups and tend to use vertical space more than some others, you could likely get away with more than a dozen in there. Terribilis (as said before) do well in groups but get big, I would try 8-10 of them.
On a side note (soapbox...kinda), mixing darts is generally a really bad idea, they either fight to death or cross and make mutts. Your case may have an exception though. With the kind of vertical space your tank probably offers you could get away with a ground dwelling species as well as one of the more arboreal species. Most of the arboreals though are thumbnails, which are small and touchy...if you go that route get some keeping time with an easier species first.

3. Most are really bad swimmers...but they seem to know it. They normally don't get into water that is deep enough to cover their heads. I would think that a water feature would be fine as long as the sides slope gradually and they have easy access to the land.
On another side note, I don't have experience with them so I can't go into much detail, but I have heard from several people that the various Ameerega species actually may require a flowing water source to breed...may be something for you to look into.

4. I have bred and raised literally hundreds of dart frogs, some over multiple generations, and I have never found a need or benifit to using UVB lighting on them. I find that vitamin supplementation with a QUALITY vitamin mixture is all they need.
 
jeosbo01;4685790; said:
1. Normally I would recommend D. auratus or tinctorius for beginners but based on the tank you have I would say that a group of Terribilis would be the way to go. They are relatively forgiving in care requirements, they get big, are bold and do well in groups...biggest drawback is the price (expect at least $75-100 each).

2. Tank dimensions are needed to really say here. Many of the larger dart frogs spend most of their time on the ground and as such the footprint of the tank dictates how many could be in there. Auratus and tinctorius (including azureus) are highly territorial and even in a tank that size I would not keep more than a few pairs of either. Leucomelas do a little better in groups and tend to use vertical space more than some others, you could likely get away with more than a dozen in there. Terribilis (as said before) do well in groups but get big, I would try 8-10 of them.
On a side note (soapbox...kinda), mixing darts is generally a really bad idea, they either fight to death or cross and make mutts. Your case may have an exception though. With the kind of vertical space your tank probably offers you could get away with a ground dwelling species as well as one of the more arboreal species. Most of the arboreals though are thumbnails, which are small and touchy...if you go that route get some keeping time with an easier species first.

3. Most are really bad swimmers...but they seem to know it. They normally don't get into water that is deep enough to cover their heads. I would think that a water feature would be fine as long as the sides slope gradually and they have easy access to the land.
On another side note, I don't have experience with them so I can't go into much detail, but I have heard from several people that the various Ameerega species actually may require a flowing water source to breed...may be something for you to look into.

4. I have bred and raised literally hundreds of dart frogs, some over multiple generations, and I have never found a need or benifit to using UVB lighting on them. I find that vitamin supplementation with a QUALITY vitamin mixture is all they need.
Click to expand...

Thanks for replies everyone!

My tank dimensions are 72" long x 30" wide x 24" tall. That works out to be 15 square feet of floor space and 30 cubic feet of volume. The tank started out life as being "reef ready" with corner overflow drains and 2 returns along the back wall. I am planning to remove the corner overflows and use to bottom drains and returns for the water feature. I will keep the water feature small, not to exceed 20% of the available floor space and shallow to about 4" max. It will also be heavily planted with marginals and full aquatics- so that clumsy frogs can pull themselves out, if need be.

I am planning to make the tank conversion over the next few months, let the plants establish themselves , make whatever changes to the set up that are deemed needed, and then introduce a small group of ONE species in the spring.

I'll post some pictures and maybe a build thread when I'm done.:D
 
The only thing bad I can think of with the tincs if the tendenacy to fight if more the one female is houses together.

I do think leucs or one type of the terribilis would make an awesome display with the larger tank.

I would try if you could to make the water feature a little less deep or make sure that there is plenty of places and things for them to climb out on. Some frogs will fight and if they have a chance to drown each other they will. There has been numerous threads about frogs drowning in a film cannister full of water. I myself personally would not risk it.

Another good frog IMHO is the vitattus. They have bright blues and oranges, a nice call and do excellent in groups.

No UVB is needed and the plants will not need it either. It will no necessarily hurt but is not needed.

Supplements are a must and must be replaced frequently regardless of when they expires ( approx every 6 months).

I also have been raising dart for about 5 years so am happy to help with anything I can.
 
I say with that size tank, you can mix some species together. I think you'd enjoy some P. terribilis, P. vittatus, D. auratus or D. leucomelas mixed together in there. I think any one or two of those species would be best for your tank and experience level. I think keeping the total number of frogs around 20 that'd you'd be fine with your size tank. I too haven't heard or seen any benefit to using UV lighting with poison frogs. I'm all for dusting food items at every meal. I've worked with dart frogs kept in a large walk-through rainforest exhibit that had a very deep pool, with some steep sides. Not one frog ever drowned...they stay out of the water. They're pretty dang cautious and actually seemed to avoid hanging out around the deepest parts of the pool. I would advise against mixing azureus and tinctorius with the above.. females of these two species will not only fight amoungst themselves, but also with other poison frogs. I've personally witnessed a female tinc chase down a large male leucomelas over a distance of 10 feet, constantly tacklings and harassing the leucomelas for nearly 2 hours.

Basically, I think about 10 leucomelas and 6 or so terribilis is your best bet for an attractive and easy group of poison frogs to work with in your tank.

Ohhh.. and water features in a dart frog tank are passe, IMO. I roll my eyes everytime I see a small pool of water in the front left or right corner of a dart frog vivarium.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
MonsterFishKeepers.com
Top Bottom