pond armor?

  • We are currently upgrading MFK. thanks! -neo
ok lets backtrack and let me eat my own words here. i am pretty indecisive at this point. like i said i respect your opinions and i looked into max ACR epoxy. and im thinking i want to use it, (i know you can give me crap if you want) i have used a cheap poly resin on the corners of my tank today with matting for re inforcement, next step was going to the the pond shield.... well now ive changed my mind can some one help me and tell me if i need to fiberglass/poly resin the whole plane of the tank before using the max ACR or can i leave it as is and roll the epoxy on and call it good?
also how would i tint the ACR black?
and final question. how much will the 1.5 gallon cover? inside my tank is roughly 60sq ft and i dont know if i would want to coat the outside of the tank or not?
thanks for any help with this and sorry for being on the fence about this stuff im sure you all can relate in wanting to use the best option available for your own personal build
 
wheatgerm said:
i have used a cheap poly resin on the corners of my tank today with matting for re inforcement, next step was going to the the pond shield.... well now ive changed my mind can some one help me and tell me if i need to fiberglass/poly resin the whole plane of the tank before using the max ACR or can i leave it as is and roll the epoxy on and call it good?

also how would i tint the ACR black?

and final question. how much will the 1.5 gallon cover? inside my tank is roughly 60sq ft and i dont know if i would want to coat the outside of the tank or not?
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I'm not sure I completely understand your question. If you're going to use epoxy then you don't need to use anymore polyester. As to whether you use more fiberglass, that's up to you. But if you do you can wet it out with epoxy.

And just so you know, Max ACR generally makes the recommendation to use fiberglass reinforcement on the outside of the tank only. Some people still like to use it on the inside as well to increase abrasion/chip resitance to large rocks, etc.

I don't know Max ACR's stance on this, but at least one other epoxy company suggests against fiberglass reinforcement inside of the tank in part due to the idea that increases opportunities for water to penetrate into the resin. Personally I don't think this is a big deal if care is taken and I would probably use it inside of a plywood tank if I were to build another one.

Max ACR sells a tint on their Ebay site I think.

1.5 gallons of epoxy will cover 240 sq. ft. of a perfectly smooth surface at a thickness of 10 mils. 10 mils is what at least a few epoxy companies recommend for waterproofing plywood aquaria. I think Max ACR makes the same recommendations but I can't be sure.

With a 1.5 gallon kit you could use more fiberglass reinforcement either inside or outside the tank or use your own thickening agent to make epoxy fillets along all the corners. And of course no plywood is perfectly smooth and there is a lot of waste when mixing epoxy, especially if you use the two pot mixing method.

And most people end up applying more than 10 mils anways.
 
wheatgerm said:
I've read poly based fiberglass resins aren't fully water proof but hold water? And that has never really made sense to me??
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Even cell cast acrylic isn't 100% impervious to water and that is used to make tanks all the time. I think when people see the moisture permeability ratings for polyester they freak out a bit and say it's not waterproof. But there are tanks up in the plywood sticky thread sealed with nothing but polyester.

Epoxy is not 100% impervious to water either but it is still an excellent waterproofing agent.

I know the moisture permability ratings for polyester, epoxy and even acrylic have been posted on this site. Off the top of my head I think cell cast acrylic and epoxy were about the same and polyester was somewhere below them.
 
Thanks CJH, that helps to explain things. As for the polyester resin that I have already put in the tank.. I was only using it in the corners with the fiberglass matting to strengthen the corners (this was done before I decided I was going with max acr) so now I will sand the polyester resin so hopefully the epoxy will bite good into the polyester. I already made a decent fillet out of the matting and resin so hopefully when the epoxy gets here I will be good to go...
As for the outside of the tank, I didn't really want to coat all 60sq ft of it in fiberglass matting? I was hoping I could get away with just covering it in epoxy as well?

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wheatgerm said:
Thanks CJH, that helps to explain things. As for the polyester resin that I have already put in the tank.. I was only using it in the corners with the fiberglass matting to strengthen the corners (this was done before I decided I was going with max acr) so now I will sand the polyester resin so hopefully the epoxy will bite good into the polyester. I already made a decent fillet out of the matting and resin so hopefully when the epoxy gets here I will be good to go...
As for the outside of the tank, I didn't really want to coat all 60sq ft of it in fiberglass matting? I was hoping I could get away with just covering it in epoxy as well?

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You might want to rub some denatured alcohol on the cured polyester resin after you sand it.

Did you use fiberglass matting or fiberglass cloth tape? I thought you pictured cloth tape in your other thread?

As far as applying epoxy to the entire outside of a plywood tank, I am not a fan of that. I believe that if any moisture does get onto or into the plywood it needs a way out. You're already using marine plywood, right?

I know Buckdog did that with his Max ACR build but I'm not sure if the company recommended that or if it was his own peace of mind.

Fiberglass and epoxy on the outside corners is probably a good idea. West Systems and Max ACR both recommend that over the inside of the tank. There might be another epoxy company as well that suggests that.

I've never dealt with Max ACR but I do like what I hear about their customer service for people building DIY plywood tanks. You should run any questions you have by them.
 
Yes your correct. I did 3 layers of tape. One right on the seam then a strip overlapping on the flats of each side of the corner. So its about 3 inches out from the corner.
I agree with you I don't like the idea of sealing the entire outside of the tank either im using marine grade 3/4 ply and the tank will have a solid euro brace on the top when finished.
I MAY seal the outside of the tank on the walls only but leave the bottom open incase there is a leak it has somewhere to drain. But haven't decided yet.
Im also considering mesh taping the whole floor of the tank for better strenght and impact strength. But I don't see a need for fiberglassing the walls

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wheatgerm said:
Yes your correct. I did 3 layers of tape. One right on the seam then a strip overlapping on the flats of each side of the corner. So its about 3 inches out from the corner.
I agree with you I don't like the idea of sealing the entire outside of the tank either im using marine grade 3/4 ply and the tank will have a solid euro brace on the top when finished.
I MAY seal the outside of the tank on the walls only but leave the bottom open incase there is a leak it has somewhere to drain. But haven't decided yet.
Im also considering mesh taping the whole floor of the tank for better strenght and impact strength. But I don't see a need for fiberglassing the walls

Sent from my MB860 using MonsterAquariaNetwork App
Click to expand...

Do you know the ounce rating of the tape you used?

As far as applying epoxy to the outside wall and leaving the bottom open, I personally wouldn't do that either. Don't thing of it as water that's going to run in a drop or a trickle and follow gravity. Instead assume it will be in vapor form and will follow the path of least resistance out of the plywood walls.

There are latex paints that are good at repelling droplets but still allow for vapor transmission so materials can breathe.

I would save epoxy for the outside in area you'll have plumbing, overflows, etc. Anyplace that could have regular exposure to water. Other areas that might get occasional splashing can just be painted.
 
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