Predatory Catfish Comm.

[thebiggerthebetter]

... I had wanted to add an Apurensis but I've had experience with them and I know it's definitely a no-no.

Haha! I know you want to. You are a Cephalosilurus junkie like me

Yeah, this scenario would be akin to the gulper one - most/all will likely be eaten by the apu.

Can I ask what territorial problems your worried about? Is it between the driftwoods? And who are you worried about preying on each other? Just want to see if our heads are in the same place.

Yes, the three kinds of big, bulky, strong woodcats, more than one each, will need to sort out their hidey-holes.

I'm worried about all 4 Siluridae and lima as stated, but esp. about the ompok and the schilbe as these two are the most fragile-built and are the smallest in their adulthood.

The hammerhead cat and your trachies could be top predators. I have a 1' galeatus - it's huge, thick like a bullhead and the mouth is enormous but mine appear not to prey even on 3"-5" koi.

Note I cannot say anything for the dinema and apogon, having ~zero knowledge. Dinema seems a fragile, thin fish too. Apogon is bulkier.

 

[koltsixx]

Haha! I know you want to. You are a Cephalosilurus junkie like me

Yeah, this scenario would be akin to the gulper one - most/all will likely be eaten by the apu.

Lol! Yeah I don't know what it is about them but they're freakin' adorable to me. I love the confidence they have and they're not really owner aggressive like cichlids more like owner cranky and I love that. I also love the whole rolling they do when digesting and that awesome yawn they do. I've got a 3" Apu now growing out and am trying to figure if I can comm. him with anything. I saw Wolfgang Ros's vids and he has a Nigricaudus comm'ed with Petenia Splendida and was thinking about giving that a go. After all the Splendida are fairly large in their own right and won't go looking for trouble like other cichlids so a longterm comm might work with them.

Yes, the three kinds of big, bulky, strong woodcats, more than one each, will need to sort out their hidey-holes.

I'm worried about all 4 Siluridae and lima as stated, but esp. about the ompok and the schilbe as these two are the most fragile-built and are the smallest in their adulthood.

The hammerhead cat and your trachies could be top predators. I have a 1' galeatus - it's huge, thick like a bullhead and the mouth is enormous but mine appear not to prey even on 3"-5" koi.

Note I cannot say anything for the dinema and apogon, having ~zero knowledge. Dinema seems a fragile, thin fish too. Apogon is bulkier.

When I kept all three woodcat species together they used to share hides as long as the hide was big enough. They used to squeeze around each other literally wedging themselves between each other and the sides of the pvc pipes I gave them. The only time I ever heard aggression was when a hide was full and a fifth Driftwood wanted in. Then I'd here tons of grunting and more or less them forcing each other around until one left for another hide. There used to be PVC pipes full of Jags, Trachy's and Galeatus side by side.

The Dinema is probably as fragile as you say, I've often heard them described as similar to Hydrolycus Armatus in every way imaginable. Skittish and prone to hurting themselves, though I never had such problems with Armatus so it makes me wonder how true that is of the Dinema especially if kept in a group which may allay their fearfulness. Still it deserves careful consideration as the Dinema is the fish I worry the most about because they do look fragile as their reputation.

As far as the Schilbe I'm surprised you say they're frail, from what I read they max out at 14 inches and the vid I saw of them make them look fairly substantial. Here's 2 vids I saw of them online.
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I do completely understand your fears for the Lima/Elongatus and Siluroides and any of the thin bodied cats. While my Trachy's haven't shown any real predatory instincts most of the time my male has surprised me from time to time. Dude ate 3 Silver Dats and a Severum out of nowhere. He was kept with much smaller fish all his life and all of a sudden went pred mode despite being well fed. Though the fish where less then half his size, since then I've been very wary of him and the fish I put with him.

I gotta ask where'd you get your Galeatus? I had picked up a trio from Shark Aquarium but have never seen them offered by anyone else and want to know as many vendors who sell them as possible to ensure I track some down.

 

[thebiggerthebetter]

Interesting read. Thanks.

Sorry about lumping the 3 Siluriidae with a S. mystus which is a Schibeidae.

I don't think you can get S. mystus. All I ever saw were S. intermedius http://www.planetcatfish.com/common/species.php?species_id=59 I had a couple too. And 3 Ompok siluroides. IME, they were similar in their built and the slow growth. Yeah, schilbe is a bit thicker but in my eyes it does not really affect its chances of falling prey say to your Trachies, which are ~1' now. I don't think you'd be able to get either ompok or schilbe big. Yeah, I saw those vids too. Very nice.

5 years ago I've had 4 galeatus. Not from the same place and not all obtained at the same time, and I cannot remember where I got them from. I never thought they'd be difficult to source. Looks like I was wrong.

I now have two left. Only one is so large. The other is still ~6".

 

[Aweshade9]

bluegrasscichlids has some mystus http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?571858-MYSTUS-CATFISH-regular-for-sale

 

[thebiggerthebetter]

Thanks, mate. Looks like Schilbe intermedius to me. Mystus catfish appears to have been used as a common name by the seller. Mystus is a huge genus and a common name.

 

[Aweshade9]

Thanks, mate. Looks like Schilbe intermedius to me. Mystus catfish appears to have been used as a common name by the seller. Mystus is a huge genus and a common name.

well thats a bummer. Is there alot of variation between the species of the genus?

 

[koltsixx]

Interesting read. Thanks.

Sorry about lumping the 3 Siluriidae with a S. mystus which is a Schibeidae.

I don't think you can get S. mystus. All I ever saw were S. intermedius http://www.planetcatfish.com/common/species.php?species_id=59 I had a couple too. And 3 Ompok siluroides. IME, they were similar in their built and the slow growth. Yeah, schilbe is a bit thicker but in my eyes it does not really affect its chances of falling prey say to your Trachies, which are ~1' now. I don't think you'd be able to get either ompok or schilbe big. Yeah, I saw those vids too. Very nice.

5 years ago I've had 4 galeatus. Not from the same place and not all obtained at the same time, and I cannot remember where I got them from. I never thought they'd be difficult to source. Looks like I was wrong.

I now have two left. Only one is so large. The other is still ~6".

No problem and no worries about lumping the Schibeidae in, I didn't think you where including it as a Siluriidae; I actually thought you just lumped them together because of body shape and how they may suffer from predation by my other cats. I've respect your input man as coming from someone I consider very knowledgeable. It's disappointing to hear about the slow growth on the Siluroides and the Schilbe though. I had hoped to keep them separate figuring the Trachy's growth would slow and the Siluroides and Schilbe might get to a decent size before slowing down in growth as they neared their maximum as well but it doesn't sound like they'll have a chance to grow as I had hoped.

As far as the Galeatus, your right they're definitely not a common import and it's too bad you can't remember where you got yours from. Like I said though I got mine from SharkAquarium at around 2 inches listed simply as Driftwood Cat. SA has some up now at around 7 inches that are labeled as such but I don't trust the site as I've also gone in SA and seen taeniatus, coracoideus, galaxias and fisheri listed under the same common name there. I'm hoping to get some cash and check it out myself soon, if I do I'll give you a heads up as to whether they're actually Galeatus or not.

bluegrasscichlids has some mystus http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?571858-MYSTUS-CATFISH-regular-for-sale

Thanks man for the info. Bluegrass is actually one of the places I was hoping to source them from.

Thanks, mate. Looks like Schilbe intermedius to me. Mystus catfish appears to have been used as a common name by the seller. Mystus is a huge genus and a common name.

Could be, I myself am not familiar enough to make a definitive call on the id especially from that pic but the scientific name bluegrass has it listed as is Schilbe Mystus in the product description as does Seagrest on their product page. Though I know Intermedius is the more common I may still take a chance and add them to another comm. and see what they turn out to be.

well thats a bummer. Is there alot of variation between the species of the genus?

There's a bit but not too much as far as max size goes if that's what you're referring to, most Schilbe will hit 1' or more. Interestingly enough Intermedius has been recorded up to 24 inches but the vast majority will only hit 12 inches or so while Mystus seems to average around 14" according to Planetcatfish. In either case I think any Schilbe makes an interesting addition as one of the few mid water cats, making them highly visible in an aquarium.

Thank you both for the great input, I'm truly enjoying the convo. and info. I'm receiving.

 

[thebiggerthebetter]

No problem and no worries about lumping the Schibeidae in, I didn't think you where including it as a Siluriidae;
*** I was. Brain cramp.

I actually thought you just lumped them together because of body shape and how they may suffer from predation by my other cats.
*** Yep.

I've respect your input man as coming from someone I consider very knowledgeable.
*** Not on the cats in question, Kolt. One, two, three fish = data points is not knowledge but a very limited personal experience. The fact that these are rarely kept and even more rarely reported about on MFK, PCF, etc. is not helping either.

It's disappointing to hear about the slow growth on the Siluroides and the Schilbe though. I had hoped to keep them separate figuring the Trachy's growth would slow and the Siluroides and Schilbe might get to a decent size before slowing down in growth as they neared their maximum as well but it doesn't sound like they'll have a chance to grow as I had hoped.
*** Well, see above. It may be worth a try. YMMV, you know.

As far as the Galeatus, your right they're definitely not a common import and it's too bad you can't remember where you got yours from. Like I said though I got mine from SharkAquarium at around 2 inches listed simply as Driftwood Cat. SA has some up now at around 7 inches that are labeled as such but I don't trust the site as I've also gone in SA and seen taeniatus, coracoideus, galaxias and fisheri listed under the same common name there. I'm hoping to get some cash and check it out myself soon, if I do I'll give you a heads up as to whether they're actually Galeatus or not.
*** It could have been ShAq that I got mine from (SA is already taken by our favorite continent - have we been through this with you or someone else?).

Could be, I myself am not familiar enough to make a definitive call on the id especially from that pic but the scientific name bluegrass has it listed as is Schilbe Mystus in the product description as does Seagrest on their product page. Though I know Intermedius is the more common I may still take a chance and add them to another comm. and see what they turn out to be.
*** PCF has not even a photo of the mystus. If it turns out mystus, it'd be swell.

... In either case I think any Schilbe makes an interesting addition as one of the few mid water cats, making them highly visible in an aquarium.
*** Yep. They are fun IMO. I've always had 1 or 2. I wish to see them in a larger group.

 

[koltsixx]

Not on the cats in question, Kolt. One, two, three fish = data points is not knowledge but a very limited personal experience. The fact that these are rarely kept and even more rarely reported about on MFK, PCF, etc. is not helping either.

Well, see above. It may be worth a try. YMMV, you know.

It could have been ShAq that I got mine from (SA is already taken by our favorite continent - have we been through this with you or someone else?).

PCF has not even a photo of the mystus. If it turns out mystus, it'd be swell.

Yep. They are fun IMO. I've always had 1 or 2. I wish to see them in a larger group.

Hey man, again no worries on the brain cramp it happens.

Knowledge is the understanding of ones limitations and expressing statements as what they are instead of fact, so I stand by my statement of calling you knowledgeable. The only think I am curious about is how you know(specifically with Ompoks) which species is usually imported into the US. I understand why you believe Sorubim Elongatus is being imported not Lima but don't know how you came to the conclusion about the Siluroides.

I am still considering my options and have been moving away from the Mystus because of your advice on their ultimate size. The more I think about it, the more I'm leaning toward your conclusion that they may fall prey to the Trachy's.

Yes it was me who you corrected about using SA to represent Shark Aquarium. lol! I'll try to come up with another more appropriate abbr. because I'm not fond of the ShAq abbr. and will need a replacement for me using SA.

While the Schilbe maybe fun in a group I was recently thinking Callophysus macropterus instead. I had them in the past and am familiar with their growth rate(which was impressive) and habits.

 

[thebiggerthebetter]

...The only think I am curious about is how you know(specifically with Ompoks) which species is usually imported into the US. ... don't know how you came to the conclusion about the Siluroides.
*** Through talking on PCF. In particular, Shovelnose (aka Balaji - our high-level hobbyist colleague from southern India) told me that bimaculatus (from southern India) is never/almost never exported because most export occurs in the northern parts where there is the siluroides, cheap, numerous, and readily available.

Yes it was me who you corrected about using SA to represent Shark Aquarium. lol! I'll try to come up with another more appropriate abbr. because I'm not fond of the ShAq abbr. and will need a replacement for me using SA.
*** Sorry if it sounded as a correction. No one can force anyone. Just an observation... out of a strive for clarity and efficiency.

While the Schilbe maybe fun in a group I was recently thinking Callophysus macropterus instead. I had them in the past and am familiar with their growth rate(which was impressive) and habits.
*** It's hard to balance out all the levels of the water column. Vulture is a benthic fish but not a hider.