what size is the tank your cycling for him, is he gonna be socializing in there? i have a bit off a theory on 'aggressive fish' imo alot of these fish can be kept in community's but because people are reading online how bad they are they are getting bad rep, then theres the people who live feed these aggressive fish slowly raising food size until they are feeding an 8inch bass to a 2 ft giant snakehead... most snakehead commune pretty well, i know alot of people who keep giants with fish from 2 to 12inch no problems. im not saying the blackdevil will be fine at all as this is the most risky fish ive tried but i believe theres a chance if the other fish are bad enough themselves and theres places to hide...
project black devil cat in a 300g community!
- Thread starter justarn
- Start date
56.. so a 40b footprint w/ a lil' more space.. And I'll be moving a 12"+ fire eel into the tank with him (the eel atm is in the same tank w/ him so mainly it'll be cutting down the bio-load not neccisarily increasing the tank size). Our Aba is in a 75 but will be moved to a 120w.. so the cat and eel will be moved up accordingly.. and I imagine by the time he's 12"-18" he'll be ready to go into the big pool. Or I have considered seeing how he'd roll w/ the aba but I doubt we will try it as the aba has shown hes willing and capable of killing anything we put with him at some point.
I actually do a lot of live feeding w/ our big cats and gar... but imo its the fact I keep everyone well fed consistently that keeps such aggressive fish content. Space, and not underfeeding have been the secret to my success in coming fish that a lot of time are known to kill tank-mates. And of course individual personalities... some fish imo need more "personal space" then others and when you start putting more then a few big fish in a relatively small area it shouldn't surprise anyone aggression/territorial tendancies also increase instead of decrease.
TBH most people just don't want to spend the time sitting infront of their tanks actually "watching" the interactions going on. ime you rarely just get a "Boom" there are warning signs that most people ignore or don't recognize before a carefully balanced aggressive community explodes.
imo keeping any fish in a box, and putting other fish with it big or small, same species or different... is almost always a gamble. The more predatory, aggressive, or territorial a fish the harder it is to find the right balance of tank-mates. why imo "Never trust a catfish" is 100% true... they are all of the above. I'm finding there really isn't much of a difference in trying to comm large cats as it is trying to comm African cichlids... your just dealing with bigger fish/space requirments. You can stuff a bunch in a "small" tank. Lets say 500 gallons... overfilter the heck out of it.. provide no shelter so no one can "claim" anything.. but your still going to get dead fish... they will squabble over the corners... or just because this one touched that one... on the flip side.. you can house just 2 in a well planted/scaped set-up w/ plenty of hide spots... imo this set-up is far more likely to succeed... but the truth is its still much smaller then their natural range and 1 may decide that's going to claim the whole tank... Trying to force fish to do things that aren't natural is why they kill each other and leave the bodies... Predation...Well that's simply the owner being stingy and not feeding enough or well enough ime.
I can honestly say I've not lost a fish to predation or aggression un-knowingly for a few years now ( ie I haven't lost a fish unexpectedly, I've taken a few chances knowing predation was a possibility. Like atm the 2 tropical gar we have have a long list of fish they have killed includeing ATF, rays, arrowana.)... I learned most of this from personal experience not from others of scientific papers.
I always say each set-up/tank is different.. what might work for one person may not for another ect... but when fish start beating each other up its time to regroup and figure it out because ime it only gets worse.. not better. It can be as simple as moving décor around in/out ... or as extreme as moving to another tank/physical separation permanently.
I actually do a lot of live feeding w/ our big cats and gar... but imo its the fact I keep everyone well fed consistently that keeps such aggressive fish content. Space, and not underfeeding have been the secret to my success in coming fish that a lot of time are known to kill tank-mates. And of course individual personalities... some fish imo need more "personal space" then others and when you start putting more then a few big fish in a relatively small area it shouldn't surprise anyone aggression/territorial tendancies also increase instead of decrease.
TBH most people just don't want to spend the time sitting infront of their tanks actually "watching" the interactions going on. ime you rarely just get a "Boom" there are warning signs that most people ignore or don't recognize before a carefully balanced aggressive community explodes.
imo keeping any fish in a box, and putting other fish with it big or small, same species or different... is almost always a gamble. The more predatory, aggressive, or territorial a fish the harder it is to find the right balance of tank-mates. why imo "Never trust a catfish" is 100% true... they are all of the above. I'm finding there really isn't much of a difference in trying to comm large cats as it is trying to comm African cichlids... your just dealing with bigger fish/space requirments. You can stuff a bunch in a "small" tank. Lets say 500 gallons... overfilter the heck out of it.. provide no shelter so no one can "claim" anything.. but your still going to get dead fish... they will squabble over the corners... or just because this one touched that one... on the flip side.. you can house just 2 in a well planted/scaped set-up w/ plenty of hide spots... imo this set-up is far more likely to succeed... but the truth is its still much smaller then their natural range and 1 may decide that's going to claim the whole tank... Trying to force fish to do things that aren't natural is why they kill each other and leave the bodies... Predation...Well that's simply the owner being stingy and not feeding enough or well enough ime.
I can honestly say I've not lost a fish to predation or aggression un-knowingly for a few years now ( ie I haven't lost a fish unexpectedly, I've taken a few chances knowing predation was a possibility. Like atm the 2 tropical gar we have have a long list of fish they have killed includeing ATF, rays, arrowana.)... I learned most of this from personal experience not from others of scientific papers.
I always say each set-up/tank is different.. what might work for one person may not for another ect... but when fish start beating each other up its time to regroup and figure it out because ime it only gets worse.. not better. It can be as simple as moving décor around in/out ... or as extreme as moving to another tank/physical separation permanently.
great post, i look at each setup individually much the same as you and have too had success combining fish that people say would never work. i actaully just had to google aba thats the first time in a long time... i assuming its the aba aba knife, that is one awesome looking fish, max out around 4foot though!! you must have a monster pool, is it glamorous or a swimming pool jobbie? would love to see a pic?
Nothing special... a 10'diam intex pool lined w/ a 45epdm firestone liner.. diy filtration... pics mid water change the other day... hubbys been putting together another tower... as atm this one had a mag 9.5 on it and the giant fountain is from a mag2400... which will be swapping duties soon as he's finished w/ the plumbing. We bought the house back in December... found out in Feb iir that number 2 was otw.... so our original plans of taking the tax money and doing some upgrades around the house and building a more permanent pool where tossed out the window ( and of course once you start opening things up $$$ starts myseriously adding up as well! >.<) we had to choose between building a more solid structure vs redoing our houses plumbing ect....
No more surpirzes lol... this is our last kid. So this should stand for the next 2-3yrs and will give me more time to plan/plan/plan our basement remodel. The liner is 15'x15' and not sure if i'm going to integrate it into our final plan or use it for an outdoor pond. But atm not real worried.
whole think includeing pumps ect cost us about 1k usd for approx. 800-1k gallons.
200$ for liner
100$ for pool
200$ for mag 2400
75$ for mag 9.5
50$ for diy filter parts/pipes/ect
150$ for heaters
and I'm sure i'm missing stuff but that's the gist of it.
No more surpirzes lol... this is our last kid. So this should stand for the next 2-3yrs and will give me more time to plan/plan/plan our basement remodel. The liner is 15'x15' and not sure if i'm going to integrate it into our final plan or use it for an outdoor pond. But atm not real worried.
whole think includeing pumps ect cost us about 1k usd for approx. 800-1k gallons.
200$ for liner
100$ for pool
200$ for mag 2400
75$ for mag 9.5
50$ for diy filter parts/pipes/ect
150$ for heaters
and I'm sure i'm missing stuff but that's the gist of it.
Just didn't want Michael Bryce's (aka Arapaimag) input in an unrelated thread to be lost there, so I thought I'd cite it here (nothing implied; please don't read between the lines) http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?520054-Sperata-sp-grow-out-thread/page7 : "A larger Hemibagrus wyckii never bothered it (TBTB edit: Sperata aor) or any of the other cats or other fish. The wyckii claimed a 3m x 3m area of the L shaped tank and a small wall blocked its view of the 8 plus metre long side of the tank. All of the other catfish choose to stay on the long side and thus seldom encountered the wyckii. I have owned 4 wyckii (Still have three 2 of which are in the 196 kl.) and all except one have been very docile when kept in either the 56kl or the larger 196kl. However all of them are killers in small tanks of mine under 3,000 litres that I have observed."
thanks for the input dude, i understand that he/she will probably, almost definitly.... will!-) end up with the big tank to himself. im most worried about my ornate pim atm as its only 7inch and delicate... the aggressive pleco is getting the brunt of the bd wrath atm probably taking all his time, never know such an evil battering ram of a plec lol. just wanted to try this for a while hence me having the 150 in the garage already.
ive named the wyckii now settled on 'THE GENERAL'.... the way he strikes on my feeding stick certainly demands respect and i keep my pinkys away from his cave during maintenance too, i think it would hurt if not cause damage already.
ive named the wyckii now settled on 'THE GENERAL'.... the way he strikes on my feeding stick certainly demands respect and i keep my pinkys away from his cave during maintenance too, i think it would hurt if not cause damage already.
My secondhand impression is that it will take 2-3 years to put on another foot but I'd love to hear firsthand experiences. I wish Arapaimag chimes in as he brought up more than one wyckii to adulthood but too often he appears to be too busy.
on closer inspection i would say he is closer to 14 inch, he's over half the height of my tank! i sold my african pike odoe a few days ago at an estimated 9/10 inch and got a measure of him when we netted him out, he was 13 inch!! shame he was such a bastard lol! well i caved and bought a baby red snakehead (to grow out for a while) the other day, im an idiot i know... he's around 5 inch and too my horror last night i heard a bang from catfish cave and couldnt see the micro, he was sideways in his mouth! i banged on the glass and the wyckii looked at me but kept hold of the wriggling little dude, another harder bang and he let go to ram the glass back at me! the snakehead limped behind a rock and i expected to have to dig out a dead fish but too my surprise he came out a minute later with some scale damage and a bit shaken but ok, under close inspection it looks like his backs fine too! needs a few more inches fast which shouldnt be a problem. so my plans for the 300 for now are the 13/14 inch black devil, the 9/10 inch short bodied rtc and the micro until the last two need rehoming or i put a pond in my garage!-)
the black devil has caused no damage to any off my other fish, ive since caught the midas attacking the sailfin pleco so thats defo him ripping his sail... im guessing he could have flattened the micro so maybe i got a nice one that shows some remorse, probably not tho haha!
the black devil has caused no damage to any off my other fish, ive since caught the midas attacking the sailfin pleco so thats defo him ripping his sail... im guessing he could have flattened the micro so maybe i got a nice one that shows some remorse, probably not tho haha!
