question on DIY backgrounds

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I'm currently doing this for a new 90gal I'm setting up.

I tried using the 3/4" styrofoam layered from home depot but after cementing most of the detail was lost. so I tossed it out and am trying again with 2" thick styrofoam layered and carved down. Its overly thick but should let me have a couple caves for my featherfin cat and rainbow shark.
styro.jpg

Also a note about ph, when I used 3/4" styrofoam, I figure I used about 1/3 of a 60lb bag. so I tested with 4oz of cured concrete in 2cups of water. It took 2 weeks of daily water changes before the test kit would even register the ph and not just be maxed out. I think the type of cement/concrete used may have an effect on ph as some mixes have more lime & limestone than standard portland cement.
 
Effrul;3337662; said:
I'm currently doing this for a new 90gal I'm setting up.

I tried using the 3/4" styrofoam layered from home depot but after cementing most of the detail was lost. so I tossed it out and am trying again with 2" thick styrofoam layered and carved down. Its overly thick but should let me have a couple caves for my featherfin cat and rainbow shark.
styro.jpg

Also a note about ph, when I used 3/4" styrofoam, I figure I used about 1/3 of a 60lb bag. so I tested with 4oz of cured concrete in 2cups of water. It took 2 weeks of daily water changes before the test kit would even register the ph and not just be maxed out. I think the type of cement/concrete used may have an effect on ph as some mixes have more lime & limestone than standard portland cement.
Click to expand...

2 weeks? woo. long! :) How do you add color on the cement? any ideas? and what paint to use? :confused:
 
not tryin to threadjack you Ayo but i put the first thin coat of cement on today
crete.jpg

I plan on doing one more thin coat then a thick coat with color pigment.
When I soaked the concrete to test it I noticed microbubbles forming on the rock after a few hours after each waterchange.
After some research it looks like that is from the water interacting with the limestone in the concrete forming calcium carbonate. Thats probably why my ph readings were so high for those 2 weeks.
I'm still unsure how those videos show 10 washings and then stable ph:confused::confused::confused:
It seems like the process takes much longer.
 
I've been doing tons of research on backgrounds like this for in aquariums, and habitats for amphibians & reptiles. I've also talked to several professional masons, people who have experience with these products & backgrounds, and people who have spoken to manufacturers directly to discuss toxicity & such.

I've still got TONS of questions about them myself, but I've been doing all this research so I don't kill my animals when I make my backgrounds.

Asides from what they say in those videos, the only thing I really have to say is- 10 washings one after another are NOT enough to cure cement. Cement cures slowly, and even though it is hard after 24 hours, it takes 3 weeks+ to stop leeching noticeable amounts of lime into the water. This WILL raise your pH, and has the potential to add other hazardous things to the water (depending on what the "fillers" are in the cement you use. After being told this by professional masons, etc. . . I wouldn't trust a time-elapse video online as being the end-all of what works. I'd fill the tank, let it sit for a few days like most people recommend, then drain & fill it again.

Also, something I've picked up from these people- cement cured slowly cures much stronger than cement cured quickly. If you let it dry overnight then fill it with water & keep it covered it will take around 3 weeks to fully cure, but then you'll have a product that is VERY strong. If you cure it really fast by adding pH decreasers to the water (people recommend pH down products, salt, and driftwoods) and try to get your pH down in 2-3 days, the cement has a higher chance of chipping off the background after a few years of use. One mason told me if you cure it slowly it should last 10+ years, but if you try to cure it in a week he'd be surprised if it lasted a year or more without chipping.

And finally, several masons have told me it will turn out to be a much stronger product if you coat it in several thin layers compared to one thick layer. They have less of a chance of cracking as the cement shrinks if you use thinner layers.

Good luck with it! Please keep us updated with what you do.


Oh yeah, and for quicker water changes- forget the bucket! Go to a garden center and tell them you need an adapter to go from a kitchen sink to a garden hose. It should be under $10 for the adapter, maybe even under $5. Fill the tank (at least for curing) with the sink, and just siphon the tank into the sink drain or into the bathtub. Or, if that doesn't work, buy the Python Drain N Fill parts to do the same thing- Foster & Smith have them cheap. http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3922
You want parts F, and maybe E, depending on your sink. F screws into E, and E is just a piece of rubber that you tighten onto the faucet with a hose clamp. F is $3.99 and E is $5.59
 
thanks for the info guys, right now im just in the planning stage. Its my exam week next week so Im just really fantasizing right now. anyway, I agree that it should not be only just one coat of cement and also I thought of soaking the cement for like 2 weeks, and every night I'd do a water change. what do you guys think?

Effrul, dont worry about threadjacking. Its all good, Im already learing from what you are posting :) so Im basing some facts from all your experiences guys :)
 
I am in the same boat. I have been a week researching online, trying every search combo i can think of. There are some products out there that wight work faster, but finding them if you are far from a big city is a pain. Sika top seal is one i found, thorite i think was anouther. I am thinking about useing hydrolic cement form lowes that can be used for pools. Read wher some have used i with success.

What ever you do listen to the advice you get, and do not rush into it. I am bad about that myself, i want it now with fish in it. But i have convinced myself to take it slow. If i have to look at an empty tank for a few weeks I will.

Anouther benefit is if you set it up and see something you dont like about it you can change it. Stock it with fish, and you have limited yourself.
 
Im not rushing to coz were are talking about chemicals going into the tank. Im also researching my self. I also thought of stocking my tank with feeder goldfishes, and see if the water is already stable, but thats only in my head though.

anyone in the same boat Id be happy to read your insights :)
 
I've come across some new stuff you guys might like to hear-

The person who used SikaTop Seal 107 seems to be right on. Redoog mentioned him, and it reminded me of reading that over a year ago, so I searched until I found that again and here it is: http://ice1forum.suddenlaunch3.com/index.cgi?board=DIY&action=display&num=1115002332 He says the product is cheap, fish-safe, cures EXTREMELY fast, and that this product is actually deemed safe for potable water containers. I emailed Sika about it, and they did confirm this, and sent me a list of Sika products approved for use in "Drinking Water System Components"- sounds pretty safe to me! The only catch was that he said, "Note that the SikaTop Seal 107 has only been approved for potable water contact for human consumption. No data is available for effects on fishes." Not that it's not safe, simply that they have no available data.

So, I search more and more and more, and I find this: http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/16605-making-fake-rocks.html
Forward to page 3 and you start to see some AWESOME rock walls. I look through everything there and find that this guy mixes grout with "acrylic copolymere" as a cement additive, and I can't find if he's referring to a bonding agent(often used in thin layers of cement), or an acrylic fortifier (used to make cements harder & more waterproof). He swears by it, and says it's very fish-safe. I then find out part way through that SikaTop Seal 107 is exactly what he uses, simply a brand name instead of being mixed at home. It's portland cement and an acrylic copolymer.

Since it's approved for potable water, it really sounds like the best bet to me. I'm looking for a supplier where I can get some of this and try it out. I'm planning on starting a set of backgrounds and terrarium/aquarium decorations this week, so I'll let you guys know how everything goes.
 
nice! Sadly I have already have my concrete curing so its to late to use the mix, but he also says he has coated with epoxy after curing the concrete and it worked well, so I may do that.
Also I wish I could have found that 6" styrofoam in the first thread you linked instead of layering 2" pieces, would have made carving so much easier
 
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