RE: Don't Buy Oscar Fish - 6 Reasons Why

[skjl47]

Hello; I did not make a post in this thread for a while. I think the quote below was the first one after reading thru the entire thread up to that point. As the game has changed I will highlight what I consider the telling comments of mine and the comments of others. I also quoted entire posts in the hope comments will not be taken out of context.
Hello; I get that some like to get digs in on others. I also get that I am on the radar of a few other members and they will generally take every opportunity to flame ( I hope this is a suitable term) me. Some are not only doing so here but also the same members are doing so on my currently active thread about fish eating too much. I can deal with this sort of thing and it appears the OP can also deal quite well.

This sort of thing seems to happen more and more in threads. Probably better suited in the lounge but is becoming the norm in other forums. Since it is what the site does I will participate.

Hello; I am not sure what this means. I do most of my own DIY house repairs. Depends on a persons skill levels and experience. I guess this is somehow related to fish keeping. I did hire my roof replaced last summer because I do know my personal limits.
Back when I was 11 years old in the late 1950's when I started keeping fish I did not even know about the concept of regular water changes (WC). At some point I cabbaged onto the WC idea. Not sure if I thought of it or got the idea from someone else.
So you kept an Oscar in a 55 gallon in the past and have learned that is a bad idea. Now you will not do that anymore. Progress. I do sort of wish you had not tried to defend how it "worked out" so much. I understand the temptation tho.
You were not a bad person just had not learned yet. I was ignorant about WC and ran tanks poorly until I caught on. I cannot change the past and for several decades now do WC.

Thank you for understanding, I was just trying to say that it can work, but if you can, you should get a larger tank. As for what that means, it means that you can do something and be able to get away with it, but it's not a good idea. You can get away with duct taping your car together, but it shouldn't be done. By DIY repairs I mean ones that work, but just barely if that makes sense.

Hello; When in a hole stop digging. I get that shops have a lot of stock and pretty much have to keep fish in too crowded conditions. I figure the hope is they move the stock often enough that it is not long term. I also get that WC and large sumps help in a commercial setting so yes it can be gotten by with.
The folks on this forum are the customers who, I am guessing here, want to keep a fish long term. The "you can do something and be able to get away with it" hole has clear flaws. When I was young and uninformed I overstocked, overfed and did not do WC. I have learned better and keep very light stocking, feed sparingly and do WC. While my current practice is so much better for the fish I keep there is a downside.

That downside is that I simply cannot keep the wider variety of and number of fish. My tanks have minimal numbers of fish and not much variety such as I had in the past. I get most of us want, as I did in the past, to have lots of different and interesting fish. Many want the bigger species as well. So the concept of being able to get away with it is appealing. Has more to do with the wants and wishes of the fish keeper than with best care practice. I'll bet there are many who keep wishing for some trick or practice they can find so they can squeeze a few more fish in .

I may be wrong about this but have gotten the impression some feel having massive power filtration is just such a trick. I get this impression from reading threads.

Hello; I for one and if memory serves several others made the point that an Oscar in a 55 for years was not good. The no big need for pitchforks aspect of the OP's story was he at first owned up to that being a mistake which is in the past and now knows better. I and many others have made mistakes in the past because we did not know about or understand. Not much point in pitchforks for things in the past.

The OP did screw up when he went on with a defense for keeping a big fish in a too small tank. I and some others called that out right away also. I guess the point I am making is mistakes in the past are just that, in the past and can not be changed. Best I can recall the OP no longer is keeping an Oscar in a 55 gallon so is not currently making that mistake. The pitchfork and condemnation stuff may best serve against those keeping an Oscar in a 55 currently. If the OP has an Oscar in a 55 today I will throw pitchforks as well.

Where exactly did the OP own up to his keeping an Oscar in a 55, as being a mistake, and that now he knows better? I must have missed that part. Not only did he not state that it was a mistake, he referenced several "care sheets" cough-cough, the first one on his list containing the following: Your Oscar aquarium should provide at least 30 gallons of space (about 114 liters) per Oscar, plus any space needed for any other fish. A minimum fish tank size of 40 gallons (about 152 liters) is recommended if you are keeping an Oscar.

LOL, yes, I think that Jeff missed that part of the story. That, and my comments that apparently caused some members here angst, were posted prior to the OP's awakening regarding the keeping of O's in a 55 gallon tank. Sorry, no free pass on his previous comments, or on the piss poor care sheets that I can only assume were used to support his personal views, on a 55 working in most cases.

.avatar--xss { width: 21px; height: 21px; line-height: 21px !important; margin-right: 2px; } S skjl47 @skjl47 "The no big need for pitchforks aspect of the OP's story was he at first owned up to that being a mistake which is in the past and now knows better."

No Jeff, he did not at first own up to anything being a mistake, he didn't change directions until 36 posts in. His initial post was made on Thursday, 2:00 PM. His "Now I know better and wouldn't have done that, but he did fine," comment was posted on Friday, at 4:13 AM. I missed it, because I was in bed sleeping. lol

And there never was any pitchforks, or stoning. According to the OP's data he's 38 yrs old, I would think plenty old enough to take some criticism on a fish forum. I doubt that he went to bed crying himself to sleep.

 

[LBDave]

Somehow,I missed this monologue yesterday LOL!

You didn't miss anything. Same players. Same old story.

 

[FINWIN]

They’re becoming more common? I have only seen one long fin oscar and it was at a walmart believe it or not.

Yeah, been common for awhile now. They sell out quickly in my area. The LFS I was going to had a batch of 'em that went in a week.

 

[krichardson]

You didn't miss anything. Same players. Same old story.

Right,I sure didnt.

 

[LBDave]

Hello; Thanks for going back to find this. I am just catching up on this thread. After being called out on it, had you not done so I was going to find it. You saved me the effort. As you may have guessed there are ongoing hostilities on this fish site. Some go back years.

I do love the irony if one considers the dig about reading for understanding skills.

Now thats funny.

 

[jaws7777]

You didn't miss anything. Same players. Same old story.

Maybe not for long. My manager wants me to retire. Apparently all the head shots are contributing to a downward spiral of my reading comprehension lol

 

[thebiggerthebetter]

This thread...
"Big Rich and Ohio Fish Rescue suck" thread...
A thousand similar threads...

on MFK?

Tolerated?

Really?

We are sawing the branch we are sitting on, my dearest, wise, and fish-loving peers...

Now I think there are voices of reason in each thread but all in all...

* * * * * * *

FWIW, I agree with kendragon in that

... Where are the big fish keepers and their fish as of 10 years ago?... it's slim pickings today!

... by bashing big fish keeping, we are killing the MFK and the new generations of MFK-ers,

.. whether our members, prospective members, or not.

People learn first hand the most and the best. Someone who has never grown their oscar from a small to large size in, say, a 30 gal or 55 gal, might never become motivated or even fathom getting a bigger tank, or building a pond, etc., that is, grow in the MFK vein and realize how cool and exciting that is!

Ken told me personally: "Oscars and 55g are great affordable starters to learn from." I sign under it.

Why do you think Ken keeps a huge school of huge-growing mahseers in a relatively small pond WITHOUT A BIOFILTER?
Why do you think he keeps 5 golden dorado in a "starter" 225 gal?

Ken says not one of us, not me, nor you, ever asked him why...

Now here is the guy, a true MFKer, who understands the spirit of our choice of poison and is quietly tinkering in his shop and humbly showing everyone that it can be done (yes, agreeably for a while, a long while, but a long experience-building and knowledge-building, and MFK promising while!) by his own example!

Why do we need to be such idealists, theorists and paper fish keepers and always assume if one doesn't have a forever tank for a fish or a 100% proof plan, they should NEVER GET THAT FISH? This is most ridiculous. Please, give people a chance to start somewhere and grow! Don't squash future MFKers, please!

Those who push down someone else's throat "Don't do it unless you can do it ideally (!!!) over the fish' life of 10-30 years" ideology must not be tolerated on MFK, I am sorry. Or feel free to shoot yourself in your buns. Choose a cheek and an angle carefully, your more important parts are on the same level...

Worst comes to worst, can't upgrade, so there is the commonly accepted, affordable, and humane ways of euthanasia, in our case clove oil... It's still but a fish, guys. It's not a child. Not even a dog or a cat, which are euthanized by a myriad. But still, a vast majority of keepers, I believe, will find a way to upgrade or, if need be, keep a fish in a smaller-than-should-be tank until they earnestly saving $$$ or building a new home for them...

* * * * * * *

Yes I have a 3.5' piraiba in a 4500 gal. It's just a young oscar in a 55 gal, just scaled down. So what, will you bash me too? Cry it's cruelty, a prison, what am I thinking? Am I a disgrace to the MFK and an abuser of animals?

Yes, I have a 3' wels in a, o horror, 240 gal, 8'x2'x2'. Am I an abhorrent fish keeper? Maybe it is me who should be euthanized and all my fish confiscated? To anyone whose fingers have inadvertently gone down for their holster right now, I have bought larger tanks that need to be set up and I am gluing wels' future tank. I aim and try to but can't do it ideally.

I started with 15, yes fifteen (!), koi in a 27 gal and a channel catfish in a 120 gal. If I came to MFK today, I'd be stomped and spat on. And if I listened, I'd not be an MFKer I am today or not at all.

It also leads to an abominable hypocrisy and double standards. Ken and I are "untouchable" cuz we semi-proved ourselves over time. A new kid on the block with the same fish in the same tank is a shark bait... Please, give him/her a chance and time they need like Ken and I were given!!!

* * * * * *

What I am saying, please, let's be reasonable, people's circumstances constantly evolve and change, today's 12-year old with an oscar in a 30 gal keeps a 4' redtail catfish in a 5000 gal at 22 years old... let people be the free people, help them grow, uphold, help (wisely!), think ahead, nurture the MFK future. Or otherwise face extinction, Mr. Wooly Rhino and Mrs. Mammoth... or go to the FB, IG, Twitter, and YouTube right now and be done with MFK.

 

[jaws7777]

This thread...
"Big Rich and Ohio Fish Rescue suck" thread...
A thousand similar threads...

on MFK?

Tolerated?

Really?

We are sawing the branch we are sitting on, my dearest, wise, and fish-loving peers...

Now I think there are voices of reason in each thread but all in all...

* * * * * * *

FWIW, I agree with kendragon in that

... Where are the big fish keepers and their fish as of 10 years ago?... it's slim pickings today!

... by bashing big fish keeping, we are killing the MFK and the new generations of MFK-ers,

.. whether our members, prospective members, or not.

People learn first hand the most and the best. Someone who has never grown their oscar from a small to large size in, say, a 30 gal or 55 gal, might never become motivated or even fathom getting a bigger tank, or building a pond, etc., that is, grow in the MFK vein and realize how cool and exciting that is!

Ken told me personally: "Oscars and 55g are great affordable starters to learn from." I sign under it.

Why do you think Ken keeps a huge school of huge-growing mahseers in a relatively small pond WITHOUT A BIOFILTER?
Why do you think he keeps 5 golden dorado in a "starter" 225 gal?

Ken says not one of us, not me, nor you, ever asked him why...

Now here is the guy, a true MFKer, who understands the spirit of our choice of poison and is quietly tinkering in his shop and humbly showing everyone that it can be done (yes, agreeably for a while, a long while, but a long experience-building and knowledge-building, and MFK promising while!) by his own example!

Why do we need to be such idealists, theorists and paper fish keepers and always assume if one doesn't have a forever tank for a fish or a 100% proof plan, they should NEVER GET THAT FISH? This is most ridiculous. Please, give people a chance to start somewhere and grow! Don't squash future MFKers, please!

Those who push down someone else's throat "Don't do it unless you can do it ideally (!!!) over the fish' life of 10-30 years" ideology must not be tolerated on MFK, I am sorry. Or feel free to shoot yourself in your buns. Choose a cheek and an angle carefully, your more important parts are on the same level...

Worst comes to worst, can't upgrade, so there is the commonly accepted, affordable, and humane ways of euthanasia, in our case clove oil... It's still but a fish, guys. It's not a child. Not even a dog or a cat, which are euthanized by a myriad. But still, a vast majority of keepers, I believe, will find a way to upgrade or, if need be, keep a fish in a smaller-than-should-be tank until they earnestly saving $$$ or building a new home for them...

* * * * * * *

Yes I have a 3.5' piraiba in a 4500 gal. It's just a young oscar in a 55 gal, just scaled down. So what, will you bash me too? Cry it's cruelty, a prison, what am I thinking? Am I a disgrace to the MFK and an abuser of animals?

Yes, I have a 3' wels in a, o horror, 240 gal, 8'x2'x2'. Am I an abhorrent fish keeper? Maybe it is me who should be euthanized and all my fish confiscated? To anyone whose fingers have inadvertently gone down for their holster right now, I have bought larger tanks that need to be set up and I am gluing wels' future tank. I aim and try to but can't do it ideally.

I started with 15, yes fifteen (!), koi in a 27 gal and a channel catfish in a 120 gal. If I came to MFK today, I'd be stomped and spat on. And if I listened, I'd not be an MFKer I am today or not at all.

It also leads to an abominable hypocrisy and double standards. Ken and I are "untouchable" cuz we semi-proved ourselves over time. A new kid on the block with the same fish in the same tank is a shark bait... Please, give him/her a chance and time they need!!!

* * * * * *

What I am saying, please, let's be reasonable, people's circumstances constantly evolve and change, today's 12-year old with an oscar in a 30 gal keeps a 4' redtail catfish in a 5000 gal at 22 years old... let people be the free people, help them grow, uphold, help (wisely!), think ahead, nurture the MFK future. Or otherwise face extinction, Mr. Wooly Rhino and Mrs. Mammoth... or go to the FB, IG, Twitter, and YouTube right now and be done with MFK.

Viktor i am soo happy you posted that. This was basically on my mind from the 1st page. I dont have the resume or street cred to make such statements. I kind of avoided it because.... well it would have turned into a poop show much sooner.

Not trying to fan any flames just happy that there are guys like you and ken doing what you do.

 

[LBDave]

A new kid on the block with the same fish in the same tank is a shark bait... Please, give him/her a chance and time they need like Ken and I were given!!!

Hit the nail on the head.

 

[RD.]

Sorry Viktor, you couldn't be more wrong. This isn't some 12 yr old kid posting about how best to keep a fish, it's a 38 yr old man. The info was sloppy at best, as were the care sheets that he provided. If you want to get up on a pulpit over that be my guest. Not me, not ever.