Red Arowannas...

[HighBackRTG]

Farms would not be able to meet the demands of a market as large as the US of A. This would raise prices on the legal market and then poachers would strip the rivers clean.

It's not something that would happen over night. Many people have to go through setting up permits with CITES. When they legalized it in Canada and in UK there was no farm draining catastrophe. Now I'm not from the UK so I can't speak on their behalf for how many people buy these fish, but we didn't see the fish farms drain dry when it was legalized in the UK. The fish is legal everywhere worldwide except in the USA and in Australia(is it still?) It's illegal in Australia for a completely different reason than for the US. They're more keen on keeping invasive species out. The fish themselves are still pretty expensive and would deter many novice fish keepers. CITES can set up regulations at first to trickle the amount of people who can buy the fish. Perhaps set a limit on how many can be exported to the USA per year. Also if the fish were legalized maybe true dedicated fish hobbyists can begin breeding them here as well. I'm not sure when this happened but I did read about it somewhere. A man from New York very close to where I live now, had actually bred these fish in secret and had been selling them. Of course he was caught and punished accordingly. If the fish were legal to own, many people would begin breeding them in hopes to make a profit. Do I condone reckless breeding? No. But I do hope people at least try to do something right. This would put less pressure on Asian farms while at the same time supply us with the fish locally. In fact it happens to the more common arowanas right now. Many of the silvers and jardinis being sold in the states are actually bred here.

 

[_Jessica_]

Hmmm...tigers are endangered, and you can still get a permit (fairly easily, from what I've seen) to keep them? From my understanding it's nearly impossible to get a permit to keep an asian aro. Silly US government...it's easier to get a large, predatory wild cat than it is to get a fish.

 

[HighBackRTG]

I noted that the US had no jurisdiction to interceed in the study of wild populations in response to your comment about the ESA. How would the US justify an incursion into a foreign country with the intent of completing a fish count? As to the farmed species being on the endangered list, ...that due to the wording of the US law which bans the species without consideration of selectively bred and farm raised color morphs. The US is not willing to alter the law until a population study is completed. With that kind of restriction to a possible easement of the existing law, we're in for a long wait.
And, the part about the aro farms having no incentive still stands. If they release fry back to the wild, that's sales money out of their pockets for zero compensation. So, why would they want to go through the expense of releasing young stock if there's nothing in it for them other than increased competition from poachers?
BTW, I like your statement; "no one would pay 3000 dollars for a 650 dollar fish." Back just before the ban, asian aros sold for a retail price of $30-$60US in SoCal for an 8"-12" specimen. Not $650.

Right, and the ban happened in the 1970's over 40 years ago. I'm sorry i forgot to add that the 650 was more of a today value. Today a legally bought Arowana sells in the hundreds.

"Current data is only available till 2009. $331.00 in the year 2009 has the same "purchase power" as $60 in the year 1970."

Although that 60 dollars in the 70's isn't the 650 today. But that's how much they sell for now. Right now buying them legally will cost you in the 650 range for a good quality fish maybe even in the 1xxx for a red of any form.

 

[soupa2]

always learn something new here.. Thanks OddBall and HBRTG

 

[HighBackRTG]

In honest truth, although this fish is endangered, it will never truly go extinct. Perhaps one day in the wild the last one will be caught and sold. But as long as there is a market for these fish, they will be bred and sold in captivity. They are just too valuable of a commodity to lose. All it would take would be to release a captive bred generation to start a wild one. Perhaps through our breeding they won't really be "wild" or "natural" anymore but the fish will continue to exist. So what continues to elude me is this. Are the endangered agencies trying to restore the fish in the wild? Or just keep it in existence. Do fish forget how to survive in the wild like pandas or tigers if they are bred in captivity? These animals are taught how to survive by their parents and leave the rest to their instincts. But I don't think fish teach their young, at least not arowanas. If fish that are bred in farms can be released into the wild, wouldn't that mean that the captive fish can turn into wild fish easily?

 

[Oddball]

You can't really compare young aros to higher order vertebrates like pandas and tigers. The aros are bred in large farm ponds and basically run on instinct until they're large enough to not worry about predators. Releasing young farm-hatched aros would be unremarkable to the fish. In essence, they're already wild.

 

[Gshock]

In honest truth, although this fish is endangered, it will never truly go extinct. Perhaps one day in the wild the last one will be caught and sold. But as long as there is a market for these fish, they will be bred and sold in captivity. They are just too valuable of a commodity to lose. All it would take would be to release a captive bred generation to start a wild one. Perhaps through our breeding they won't really be "wild" or "natural" anymore but the fish will continue to exist. So what continues to elude me is this. Are the endangered agencies trying to restore the fish in the wild? Or just keep it in existence. Do fish forget how to survive in the wild like pandas or tigers if they are bred in captivity? These animals are taught how to survive by their parents and leave the rest to their instincts. But I don't think fish teach their young, at least not arowanas. If fish that are bred in farms can be released into the wild, wouldn't that mean that the captive fish can turn into wild fish easily?

Your points sound good and all, now think about it in reality. In economic times like this, what kind of government has money to spend on releasing fish worth thousands of dollars back into the wild just to attempt repopulation. Who has that kind of money to implement and start a program like this in times like this?

 

[HighBackRTG]

Your points sound good and all, now think about it in reality. In economic times like this, what kind of government has money to spend on releasing fish worth thousands of dollars back into the wild just to attempt repopulation. Who has that kind of money to implement and start a program like this in times like this?

I understand that, but I'm not asking for us to all suddenly pool our money into releasing this fish. What I'm saying is, why is the fish still part of the ESA if all it takes to bring this fish back from the brink is a release of a generation from a farm. Would it be mean a lot of money lost? Sure, but that's another point. It's more of a question on why the US remains stubborn about this issue The US refuses follow suit with other countries like Canada and the UK territories. Are we trying to uphold a just image about ourselves in not participating in the trade of an endangered animal? I just want to have a better understanding is all.

 

[Solomon]

It is difficult to release asian arowanas back into their original habitat due to pollution and over fishing from native fishermen. For example, asian red arowanas originated from Kapuas River in Indonesia Borneo and I have been there and saw that pollution is really bad due to increase population in cities/towns near the river. I bet it is the same for the golden crossback from neighbouring Malaysia. In addition, there are also poachers as wild asian arowanas fetch more $$$.
Basically, it will be difficult to repopulate the species back to its natural habitat as long as the government do not take steps to prevent further pollution in the rivers and restrict native fishermen from catching them.

 

[peewee]

lol ^^^^^