Red Devil ad a Sev

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glenbo;4380264; said:
Its not possible for any Heros species to breed outside of the genus
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This is totally wrong and I know it for a fact. I have a Severum X. Convict right now that I've had for years. Here's a picture
Image038.jpg


Thats the best one I have because I have to take it on my phone, but he's basically a really large convict (7-8 inches) with a fat black stripe down the middle, and a more disk-shaped body. He also has a fatter mouth with sharper teeth than any adult con I've seen. I don't know if he's sterile as I've never tried to breed him, I had a 'pair' but they turned out to be both males, so I had to move one. The other one died later of a swim bladder disease.
 
That is false that picture is either a Convict or a Archocentrus hybrid, probably with a Sajica (t-bar and jade eye cichlids have a striking resemblance to green severums when adult) judging by the blues, or maybe even a Honduran Red Point.

Again if you are making a claim like that, we need proof of parents, full shots of the fish etc.

Also, Severums do not have 'big sharp teeth'.

I can assure you, you have as much chance of a Heros species creating hybrid fry with a Central American cichlid, or anything out of the Heros genus as you have crossing a Great White Shark with a Manta Ray.
 
You don't have to believe me if you don't want to, but thats what he is. He's about 5 or 6 years old, and I didn't own the parents, so theres no way I can give you the proof you want. I'm just saying that in my own experience Heros hybridize quite readily. I have been considering getting him a little harem of severum females to see if he's fertile, If i end up doing that I'll send you the pictures you need.

I think it is also important to note that genera aren't specifially a classification of genetic similarity between animals in many cases, and are constantly in flux. This being said, it isn't the scientific classification that creates the rules of the natural world, rather it is the best guess we have all agreed on so far as to what the rules probably are. So even if you've read that this isn't possible, it doesn't nesicarially mean that it isn't. It just means that no-one has ever heard of it happening before.


I also wasn't saying that the teeth thing was a result of the severum blood. I was just making an observation. Sorry I don't have better pictures, but his body shape is very similar to severum, he also has no nuchal hump for an adult male which is typical of a sev.

To further my point, stranger hybrids have happened. Look up in the knife-fish catalogue of segrest farms (segrestfarms.com), and you'll find a picture of what they describe as
Apteronotus albifrons (BGK) X Mormyrus rume proboscirostris (bottlenose momyrid).
By all logic this should not be possible, as the two fish aren't even the same kind, or in the same family, or even from the same continent. I suspect that hormone injection was involved, but it just goes to show, that stranger things have happened.

So all i'm saying is you don't have to believe me if you don't want to, but don't be so quick to judge. Just because something hasn't happened for you or you have never heard of it happening, it doesn't mean that it isn't possible. This guy only happened because convicts try to get with everything, it makes sense to me and seems totally plausable. It happened by accident in someone's show tank. I'll try to get some more pictures showing the severum body shape, but I don't have a digital camera so I cant promise anything. Has anyone here heard of other heros hybrids?
 
oh and I have some convict x honduran redpoint, they don't look like him. They're just more colourful convicts. Sajica might be possible, as they have the same line, but there are no blues in the fish and he has a definitely sloped forehead. Its been a long time since I got them, but If my memory serves me correctly the only things the guy had in his tank were sev's and con's, mabye a JD. Fish like Sajica and Vieja are extremely hard to find in Oklahoma, so it dosen't seem likely. But you could be right.
 
Sorry mate, i believe that you 'believe' that he is a South American x Central American Hybrid (which has been proven impossible, unless you count real Geography and class Festae as a South as some do, baring in mind what we call Central Americans usually occupy northern parts of South America, Central America and North America)

So i don't think you are intentionally Lying, and don't want to offend you, but it is without a doubt not a Heros x Convict. (plus it looks nothing like a Heros in anyway, but looks like a Sajica looking at his top fins with a Convict face)

Plus being a Heros/Severum nerd, I have never owned a Severum with a Nuchal hump, the Nuchal hump tends to be a Central American/ African trait.

(15 years of keeping Severums, Heros Efaciatus, Heros Sp. Rotkeil, Heros Sp. Notatus)

Can anybody else claim they have bred a Severum with something with adequate proof? because everyone who is respected around here who has tried it has got dead eggs and no fry.

You can certainly get them to lay with something else, i currently have 9 Heros Sp. Rotkeil Juvis (under 6") and one is constantly trying to pair with a very pretty male Jack Dempsey, and another with a Texas, of course nothing ever comes of it.

That also proves nothing, as i have had a Parrot try and breed with a Silver Dollar before lmao!!
 
Yeah, there's really no way to tell at this point without genetic testing, which I don't really want to pay for, so either of us could be right. Thats just what I was told he was, I've never doubted it as he really does look like a severum in the body shape. I was saying that no nuchal hump is typical of heros, as he is an adult dominant male in the tank, if he was pure con or con x sajica he would have developed one by now. But you're right, there really is no way to tell, it just doesn't sound as far fetched to me as it seems to to you. I'll try to get some pictures that show his body shape and maybe I'll post a new thread to see if this has happened for anybody else. All i know is that he's a fry that came out of a tank with a paired severum and convict. It sounds pretty plausable to me as convicts used to be called "cryptoheros", which might say something about their relation. I'm just saying that he's got to be something, and severum seems the most likely cross
 
Would it be possible to get a severum body shape with a female sajica? The one thing that puts me off about that possibility is the head shape, i've never seen either con or sajica with that sloped of a forehead for an adult. but the line down the center of the sajica rings true to his patterning
 
Yeh post up some more pics :)
 
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