Red Devil or Midas?

chefrific

Feeder Fish
MFK Member
Sep 14, 2007
296
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0
Georgia
You might want to take a closer look at that sticky then. :)

The point of that sticky is that no one (including an expert on the species) can simply look at a fish and determine its genetics, especially with A. labiatus & A. citrinellus.
Perhaps you need to read what I posted a little closer. I just wanted some opinions. I'm glad that we have someone like you to keep us in line on this forum. I'll be sure to check with you before I post something again.
I mean REALLY???!!!! Are you that sensitive? Do you need a hug?
It's ok. What's the point of a forum if you can't share and post for the sake of some opinions?
Wow.
 

crush329

Feeder Fish
MFK Member
Mar 12, 2008
947
1
0
MO
Perhaps you need to read what I posted a little closer. I just wanted some opinions. I'm glad that we have someone like you to keep us in line on this forum. I'll be sure to check with you before I post something again.
I mean REALLY???!!!! Are you that sensitive? Do you need a hug?
It's ok. What's the point of a forum if you can't share and post for the sake of some opinions?
Wow.
LOL! That's why I don't ask about my orange fading fish I call a red devil because I bought him as one. About a week later the store got in some midas and their mouths and features looked totally different at 2 to 3 inches. So there is a difference even between store bought ones, but that's here nor there. My male will be 6 years old this september. I was reading on a forum that someone had a devil for 16 years and then it got sick... They nursed it back to health and it finally died at the age of 20. So idk how true the story was but I'm sure they can live a while as tough as they are. Btw you got a nice one and he is very similar to mine.
 

Thelatinofishlover

Plecostomus
MFK Member
Oct 17, 2012
1,425
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Mexico City
Perhaps you need to read what I posted a little closer. I just wanted some opinions. I'm glad that we have someone like you to keep us in line on this forum. I'll be sure to check with you before I post something again.
I mean REALLY???!!!! Are you that sensitive? Do you need a hug?
It's ok. What's the point of a forum if you can't share and post for the sake of some opinions?
Wow.
:chillpill: chill bro R.D didnt say anything wrong, its just that we get threads like this atleast once a week.
 

chefrific

Feeder Fish
MFK Member
Sep 14, 2007
296
0
0
Georgia
"we get threads like this at least once a week."

Again. Isn't that the point of these forums. If you are bothered by repetitive posts, it's simple. Don't read them.


Sent from my iPhone using MonsterAquariaNetwork app
 

crush329

Feeder Fish
MFK Member
Mar 12, 2008
947
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MO
:chillpill: chill bro R.D didnt say anything wrong, its just that we get threads like this atleast once a week.
Damn I didn't even pay attention to who he was talking to... Sorry R.D. Yes we do get these threads all the time and although I don't like the term midevil... R.D is right. I didn't want to hear it or belive it when I bought mine either. I became a believer when I bred mine to another store bought "devil." I raised some and I had a friend raise a few. Most of mine looked more like devils but my friend raised one that resembled a midas(mostly because of that bottom lip and under bite). So I became a believer of the midevil theory once I bred him. I still call mine a red devil though(just because that's what he was bought as). I just wouldn't sell his fry labeled as devils if I were to sell them. But yeah man... R.D knows his stuff.
 

crush329

Feeder Fish
MFK Member
Mar 12, 2008
947
1
0
MO
Again. Isn't that the point of these forums. If you are bothered by repetitive posts, it's simple. Don't read them.


Sent from my iPhone using MonsterAquariaNetwork app
With the point of the forum being to inform... Nothing he said was wrong. All he was saying was that no matter what answers you get, you still can't be sure. But its your world... You can keep stirring the dust or let it settle. Your not the first to get offended by truth(I was too) and I'm sure you won't be the last. Over and out...
 

chefrific

Feeder Fish
MFK Member
Sep 14, 2007
296
0
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Georgia
With the point of the forum being to inform... Nothing he said was wrong. All he was saying was that no matter what answers you get, you still can't be sure. But its your world... You can keep stirring the dust or let it settle. Your not the first to get offended by truth(I was too) and I'm sure you won't be the last. Over and out...
Oh no, I'm not offended. Far from it. It's just funny to me how on any forum (especially this one), there are so many "forum police". For those like me that do not 'live' on this forum, it's convenient from time to time to get a simple opinion or two out of sheer curiosity. I'm not looking for scientific genetic proof. It's a hobby. There are a lot of us out here that just enjoy our "cool" fish and might have a question from time to time. I'm FARRRRRRR from any pro or expert. Nor do I expect to be. I'm not writing a thesis on my fish, just wanted to hear, "looks like this" or "looks like that".
Could care less either way. I just know that it's a badass fish and I wanted some feedback. I read the sticky before I posted. Who cares if there are 100 posts a day on the same subject. A lot of people out there just want to share their new fish and have a question. I know that there is no real way of knowing what he is, again..... JUST WANTED SOME FRIENDLY OPINIONS.
Hell, I list on paper that I'm a 'white', but if you broke down my genetics, there would be, God only know what. So for the sake of this sowing circle of drama of a forum, I bid you farewell for now. I get enough drama from my old lady....
 

4D3

Gambusia
MFK Member
Jan 21, 2013
911
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Australia
You might want to take a closer look at that sticky then. :)

The point of that sticky is that no one (including an expert on the species) can simply look at a fish and determine its genetics, especially with A. labiatus & A. citrinellus.
You are talking about the sticky post that has ABSOLUTELY NO INFORMATION ON IT?

I posted in that thread ashes ago asking where all of the pictures were...any time anyone in that thread posted some relevant info they had pictures to go with it..

They have all been removed therefore the thread is useless and no-one is relying to the thread when help/ clarification is needed....

Sent from my One using MonsterAquariaNetwork App
 

RD.

Gold Tier VIP
MFK Member
May 9, 2007
13,186
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Exactly what part of the sticky requires pictures???

ABSOLUTELY NO INFORMATION ON IT?
Really?

Please read before asking if you have a Midas or Red Devil

There have been a lot of threads lately from people asking if their fish is a Midas (Amphilophus citrinellum) or Red Devil (Amphilophus labiatum). A lot of these threads have pics of juvenile or sub adult fish. Trying to determine the identity of an adult fish is difficult enough, but these fish as juveniles look very similar to one another.

Here's the problem with these questions. It is impossible to simply eyeball a fully grown adult fish and determine 100% if it's A. labiatum or A. citrinellum. For far too many years, these two species have been crossed by breeders and farms all over the world. Some of these people may not have known the difference between the two while others simply may not have cared.

Either way, the fish commonly found in lfs and chain stores are most likely going to be hybrids of the two species. I don't recall who it was but someone on this site coined the term 'Midevil" for these fish and it's starting to stick. That's essentially how any "Red Devil" or "Midas" purchases from an lfs should be treated...as a hybrid of the two.

Add to the above the fact that other species of the Red Devil complex (such as A. xiloaensis, A. sagittae etc) are becoming more available, there's no telling how much more hybridization will occur with these closely-related species. We may eventually have to start calling them Midexiloittae.

The only way to know for sure is to get your fish from a reputable source. There are many reputable sources around such as Cichlid Connection, Jeff Rapps, Don Conkel, Ken Davis and I'm sure many others.

If you simply would like to know which yours more closely resembles, then here are some of the known characteristics.

A. citrinellum is typically going to be proportionally taller-bodied and a thicker, stockier fish. Midas will have a shorter snout with lips that (when viewed from above) will have more of a U shape. Midas are also likely to grow a larger nuchal hump.

A. labiatum is typically going to be a proportionally longer fish than it is tall. Red devils are a more stream-lined fish that doesn't quite attain the bulk that a Midas does. The lips, when viewed from above, are going to be more of a V-shape and the snout is a little longer than a midas. Wild fish typically have enlarged lips due to their specialized feeding habits. This usually goes away in captivity.

A. sagittae is, as far as I know, very similar to A. labiatum in that it is a longer bodied fish that does not get quite as bulky. A. sagittae is more of an open-water predator.

A. xiloaensis is, as far as I know, more closely related to Midas in that they are a bulkier, taller-bodied fish.


And to the OP, you asked for opnions which is all good and well. I gave you mine. If you would prefer to simply receive repetitive generic answers about what your fish is, or isn't, that's fine by me as well.

Carry on ..............
 
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