Relavance of substrate.

[viper0397]

My question is to have substrate or not? I have seen so many pictures of either or. Pro's and Con's of both would be much appreciated.

I personally have one of each. The one with substrate has just enough to slightly cover the bottom. My rays bunch it up and make it useful for them leaving bare spots in that tank.

I have another tank that is bare bottom. They rays in that tank have never seen sand before. I do occasionally see them trying to bury themselves as I assume this is instinct.

Thank you very much in advance for your input.

Jeff.

 

[Jesseliu13]

I went from substrate to no substrate. And have no cons with no substrate.

No substrate -
Pros: clean, no burried food under sand, no deep bed pockets, no chance of abraision under disc though PFS has never been an issue for abraisions. Rays are messy, they will chew things up and get it into the sand when gliding over it. also sand isnt its natural habitat. its more like silt or dirt than sand in the rivers. sand. takes up water space.

Cons - less surface area for bacteria? looks a little plain (painting the background and getting a nice led light with the shimmering effect will help this. atleast for me)

Substrate-
pros: looks appealing, rays can hide in sand when stressed, more surface area for bacteria.

Cons: All the opposites of the pros above. sand can get sucked into filters, especially canisters when rays kick up sand.

 

[viper0397]

I went from substrate to no substrate. And have no cons with no substrate.

No substrate -
Pros: clean, no burried food under sand, no deep bed pockets, no chance of abraision under disc though PFS has never been an issue for abraisions. Rays are messy, they will chew things up and get it into the sand when gliding over it. also sand isnt its natural habitat. its more like silt or dirt than sand in the rivers. sand. takes up water space.

Cons - less surface area for bacteria? looks a little plain (painting the background and getting a nice led light with the shimmering effect will help this. atleast for me)

Substrate-
pros: looks appealing, rays can hide in sand when stressed, more surface area for bacteria.

Cons: All the opposites of the pros above. sand can get sucked into filters, especially canisters when rays kick up sand.

Very good points! Thank you very much!

 

[festaedan]

I have substrate in my tank and I like it because the tank looks more natural and the rays can bury themselves if they get stressed out. Finding a good substrate is a pain but once you have one you like, its worth it.

 

[spotfin]

I have fine gravel (less than 2 mm grain size) in my tank that I collected from a local river. Have used it for several years now. Where my tank has the overflows located at the surface, I don't have any issues with the grains getting sucked up by the return pump in the sump. The gravel is approximately an inch or less in depth if evenly spread out in the tank, though my female ray tends to pile it up in the middle of the tank at times. I've never had a problem with food buried in the gravel or dead zones. These most often occur in tanks with deep (several inches) of fine substrate that doesn't get turned over. With small grained substrates, waste and other particles tend to stay on the surface of the substrate.
For me, a proper substrate looks better in the tank. And the rays are probably more comfortable with it. She often blows in it looking for food, and they all bury on occasion.
As far as water volume, the space taken up by my substrate probably accounts for a few gallons. Not that big of a loss in large systems.

 

[CANAMONSTER]

My little Captive pup is never stressed or scared. Very comfortable and there is no substrate and he has never seen substrate. Substrate no matter what looks better IMo but I just love how clean I can keep water and tank with barebottom.!!
In my big tank I will definitely be putting a natural stone tile as the substrate.

 

[SHARK13]

I have a fine gravel in my tank now. Natural color. Rays love it, and their color pops big time. Not saying any one way or another is better, but rays like to bury themselves naturally. Why not give them something to feel comfortable. Yeah you could give the argument that cb pups who have never seen substrate don't know the difference, but I guarantee if you put them on substrate they would burrow in no time. It's in their evolutionary dna. My wc female will only bury if she is startled. My cb male burrows all the time. It's his chill spot.
With gravel I can vacuum it out if need be. With sand that's not really an option. You will suck the sand out with the debris.
I have always wanted to do a natural stone tike bottom and back, then use a natural fine gravel in the bottom. That ways you never have to look at the bare bottom. I find bare bottom to be visually unappealing personally.

 

[convict360]

No substrate is good for cleanliness, but its really unattractive to look at; to the point that I'd only use it for backroom breeding set-ups to be fair.

In my main tank I went halfway, using a very thin layer of sand so that the aesthetics are there; but thin enough to reduce the risk of trapped bacteria/chemicals etc.

 

[MHDevelopments]

For me it's substrate every time. I've keep some grow out pups without it for a while but got fed up with the bare look.
As others have said, it's natural for bottom dwellers to have something beneath them, not a baron flat base.
Substrate provides surface area for bacteria.
Substrate provides rays with something to do, they like to dig and blow holes searching for food, you're dealing with intelligent animals, they need stimuli, but of course they live and breed in bare tanks so clearly are happy either way.
It's personal preference.

 

[viper0397]

Thank you very much everyone for your responses!

I think with all the advice I am most likely go with a small thin layer of sand in the bottom of my grow out tank.