Reverse osmosis for rays

[calgaryflames]

My rays have not stoped eating but are very inactive and all breeding attempts by my males have stoped completely.it's a shame this happened when it did cause my bd was going nuts for my females

 

[jcardona1]

but I know when co2 injection is used to alter ph it will affect your fish so ph swings also must affect the fish unless I'm missing something here also.

That's nonsense. I've used co2 in planted tanks for a long time. Ph swings 1-2 points very rapidly. Never lost a fish. With co2, ph in the tank is in the very low 6s. Out of the tap, it's high 7s. I do 75% water changes, guess what, no dead fish!! Why? Co2-induced ph swings don't affect your TDS or hardness. It's a gas, not a salt or a mineral, therefore the fish's osmotic regulation is unaffected. Like RD said, PH shock is a myth. The only time co2 can kill your fish is when you add so much that it literally suffocates them, as co2 lowers the o2 in your water. It has absolutely nothing to do with the ph.

 

[RD.]

Yep, it's all about osmotic balance, and C02 has no affect on that.
If ones TDS shifts too quickly it can cause osmotic shock, which for many years hobbyists confused with pH shock, only because most hobbyists don't own a TDS meter.

It's common practice for water treatment facilities to increase chlorine during spring runoff, as well as times of high rainfall, 20 years ago the water here in Red Deer was so bad during spring run off it literally looked like monkey piss, and reeked of chlorine. (pre the new water treatment upgrade)

I guess the only way anyone is going to have some kind of an idea is to speak to the heads of both water treatment facilities in Calgary. Has anyone here bothered to do so?


All this talk about fluoride & metals is just plain asinine. We have the same values here in Red Deer as Calgary does, and no one that I know has ever had any issues with their rays due to fluoride or the metals that naturally occur in glacial fed rivers.

I don't doubt that something is going on, but fluoride certainly isn't the problem.

 

[DavidW]

Low pH can have a negative effect on electrolyte regulation and gill function in fish and also increases toxicity of various chemicals, meds and metals.
So to say pH shock is a myth is not right. High pH to low shock is the common problem, most fish handle low to high pH shock well.
GH CH and pH are all interrelated.

 

[skynoch]

That's nonsense. I've used co2 in planted tanks for a long time. Ph swings 1-2 points very rapidly. Never lost a fish. With co2, ph in the tank is in the very low 6s. Out of the tap, it's high 7s. I do 75% water changes, guess what, no dead fish!! Why? Co2-induced ph swings don't affect your TDS or hardness. It's a gas, not a salt or a mineral, therefore the fish's osmotic regulation is unaffected. Like RD said, PH shock is a myth. The only time co2 can kill your fish is when you add so much that it literally suffocates them, as co2 lowers the o2 in your water. It has absolutely nothing to do with the ph.

Well in that reasoning osmotic shock is a myth as I haven't lost any fish when shipped going from a low tds to a very high tds.

 

[jcardona1]

Well in that reasoning osmotic shock is a myth as I haven't lost any fish when shipped going from a low tds to a very high tds.

That's silly. Anybody with that's kept fish and knows a thing or two about their biology knows that your statement is absurd. Did you test the TDS of both waters? Different fish can withstand different levels of change. There's no set rule that set xxppm of TDS difference can kill your fish, so without actual numbers there's no argument.

As for the co2/ph thing, you yourself said you weren't sure on the subject, now you know everything there is to know and concluded that ph swings caused by co2 can kill a fish?

 

[skynoch]

Yep, it's all about osmotic balance, and C02 has no affect on that.
If ones TDS shifts too quickly it can cause osmotic shock, which for many years hobbyists confused with pH shock, only because most hobbyists don't own a TDS meter.

It's common practice for water treatment facilities to increase chlorine during spring runoff, as well as times of high rainfall, 20 years ago the water here in Red Deer was so bad during spring run off it literally looked like monkey piss, and reeked of chlorine. (pre the new water treatment upgrade)

I guess the only way anyone is going to have some kind of an idea is to speak to the heads of both water treatment facilities in Calgary. Has anyone here bothered to do so?


All this talk about fluoride & metals is just plain asinine. We have the same values here in Red Deer as Calgary does, and no one that I know has ever had any issues with their rays due to fluoride or the metals that naturally occur in glacial fed rivers.

I don't doubt that something is going on, but fluoride certainly isn't the problem.

Your correct on the co2 not adding to the tds but like dw said there is effects from it. Mostly what hobbiests see is probably osmotic shock and what are called ph burns on fish I'm not sure if they should be called something different.

 

[RD.]

Low TDS to a higher TDS is not nearly has problematic as the reverse.

Some basic info on the subject, I'm sure that plenty more can be found via google.

http://www.mtfb.com/MTFBJUNE/MTFB2 pages/jacobsarticle2.htm


HTH

 

[jcardona1]

Low pH can have a negative effect on electrolyte regulation and gill function in fish and also increases toxicity of various chemicals, meds and metals.
So to say pH shock is a myth is not right. High pH to low shock is the common problem, most fish handle low to high pH shock well.
GH CH and pH are all interrelated.

Yes, but how low are you talking? We're not dealing with the extreme ends of the ph scale; 1 or 14; acid or drain cleaner. Who here sees those levels in the aquarium? Let's face it. It's safe to say the vast majority of us will see ph ranging from 6 to mid 8s. That is well within any fish's tolerable range.

 

[skynoch]

That's silly. Anybody with that's kept fish and knows a thing or two about their biology knows that your statement is absurd. Did you test the TDS of both waters? Different fish can withstand different levels of change. There's no set rule that set xxppm of TDS difference can kill your fish, so without actual numbers there's no argument.

As for the co2/ph thing, you yourself said you weren't sure on the subject, now you know everything there is to know and concluded that ph swings caused by co2 can kill a fish?

Yes different fish can withstand different levels of change, which fish you didn't kill in your planted tank with ph fluctuations is undetermined also. Yes I've tested both levels before one going from around 75 ppm to one over 800 ppm and the rays have lived and started eating within an hour. Is there a set rule on ph fluctuations and at how many points it will kill your fish?
As for the co2 I'm not sure as I've just witnessed thru observations but have not disected any of my rays to conclude the actual damage done. Have you did any disections on your fish to see how the ph fluctuations are affecting them? Most people on this site are not scientists and are hobbiests who thru oberservation have learned my points, are thru observation and will not be right all the time but without discussion of what people have witnessed we would be in the dark about alot.