Rivulatus questions

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If the dominant fish grow the humps & you intend to breed sub-dominant fish wouldn't that be spreading around the fry of weaker gened fish?

I think anyone breeding with the intention to sell/distribute the fry has an obligation to produce the highest grade of juvies they possibly can & cull heavily for any weaknesses, deformities, or or its a disservice to the hobby.

Not intended as a shot at the OP, I know youre choosing what to breed based on a personal aesthetic choice & I understand that. Just something to think about if you choose to pass on fry.
 
If the dominant fish grow the humps & you intend to breed sub-dominant fish wouldn't that be spreading around the fry of weaker gened fish?

I think anyone breeding with the intention to sell/distribute the fry has an obligation to produce the highest grade of juvies they possibly can & cull heavily for any weaknesses, deformities, or or its a disservice to the hobby.

Not intended as a shot at the OP, I know youre choosing what to breed based on a personal aesthetic choice & I understand that. Just something to think about if you choose to pass on fry.

I would have to argue that sub-dominance isn't a genetic weakness and possible has little to do with genetics at all. There is simply a physically stronger fish in the tank. The LFS that has these white saums in stock (and I haven't seen any of them yet) are all from the same location, so I am making the assumption that all the fish being sold have the same parents. If this is true, then all the variance on genetics can't stretch too far between individuals. I would choose the brightest, most colorful male I could find that simply doesn't display a hump (likely the beta male). And if the display of a hump is mostly environment (due to dominance, breeding, diet, etc), which a sub-dominant male would be an indication of, then the presence of a hump has very little to do with genetics.

In football terms, the comparison I am trying to make is like saying that Patton Manning is the top genetic choice, but I don't like the way he looks and I want to go with Elli Manning instead. He might be a slightly weaker genetic choice, but he still has good genes.

As far as culling goes, I have 4 years of experience breeding and raising angelfish, which requires a series of culls to get the fish with the good genes and even then, the few who survive still carry genes for deformities the others were eliminated for having. But people still love them and buy them in droves. So I am no stranger to culling those that display genetic deformities and I wouldn't put a deformed fish out on the market (and I have sold very few fish in my years of breeding).

Having said all of that, I totally understand what you mean I would never intentionally do this hobby a disservice. I am usually a snob when it comes to genetics as all the fish i currently own are either wild caught or F1. I also may not end up breeding at all. I might just keep a single male as a wet pet and leave it at that. Only time will tell. But if I do breed and if I do attempt to sell/give away some fry, I will do a culling being I put anything out into the market.


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I'm sorry, yes everyone has there own likings, but IMO A hump is the CROWN in which makes him King!! :)
If a nuchal is part of that species then why would you not want it? I love GT but haven't kept any and will only if it is a big hump species as that's what's separates it from other non dominant species! What's a Midas with out a hump?

For me its what makes that specific fish and to want one with out one would be like saying you want a fish but with only a specific color or fins!!!
 
I hear you. I've had a few pairs and none with really big humps. Here's my current male with the female laying behind him. This is happening as I type. I'm not a fan of the hump either. Seems to be more prevalent with multiple males.


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Male competition will bring out the hump, even in small size. Here are pics of my little male who has just won a jaw locking contest with his brother. He is barely 2.5 inch, already popping up a small hump within 24 hour of his victory with the promise of developing a big hump at maturity. His defeated brother has no hump, just hides and runs away from his dominant brother. I raised several generations of GT and and notice variation in hump size not just between different strains, but between individuals within the same batch. Both genetic and environment can affect the hump size.

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