Rust like stuff

[threedifferentco]

Hey all,

My tank has started spawning this weird stuff the color of rust on the rocks and gravel in my tank. I'm checking pH and Ammonia now, will list them at the bottom. I've been treating the tank for Ick and checking the pH and ammonia daily and throwing in some AmmoBlock when the ammonia level doubled.

Over the past week I've lost all but my Pleco due to what I assume was overstocking and then an ammonia spike. The fish store I started at seemed to think that 2 bala sharks and a common pleco would be fine in a 10 gallon tank, and I'm starting to get the feeling they were very very wrong. Very Very wrong. (for those of you concerned the pleco will grow out of his tank, I intend to get a 29 gallon or so when he gets bigger over the next few months)


Does anyone know what this stuff is? Should I ignore it? will it go away with a good water change? is it dangerous (to me or my fish)?>??

Thanks in advance for your help.

-Adam-

Levels

pH - 6.2 ( had been hovering around 7.2 for a while and dropped to 6.6, 6.8 earlier this week)....okay i must be doin something totally wrong
Ammonia - 4.0 (had been hovering around .25 then spiked to .50 hence the ammo block)....whoa...big jump

 

[BushFishRox]

depending on which pleco it is (there are a lot of different plecos under the "common" name) can get anywhere from 12"-24"...

the rust colored stuff you are seeing is probly brown algae, it is quite common in new tanks. How long has this tank been running? did you cycle it before you added fish?

as a side note your pleco should eat the brown algae...

 

[ShadowBass]

Your pH probably dropped because your ammonia spiked.

Ignore the brown algae for now it is the LEAST of your problems right now and is not harmful to your fish.

You'll need to get a liquid nitrite and nitrate test kit if you don't have them yet so you can monitor your cycle (I'm assuming you didn't cycle the tank if the ammonia is at 4). When your ammonia disappears your nitrites will spike high, so just because your ammonia disappears does not mean you're through the cycle. Nitrites are just as toxic to your fish. Disappearance of ammonia doesn't mean you can slow the water changes yet.
When nitrites and ammonia are 0 and nitrates appear your tank is cycled.

I haven't heard of AmmoBlock, do you mean AmmoLock? Either way, I'm assuming it's some kind of ammonia remover like AmmoLock.
Try to rely on this as little as possible. AmmoLock will remove most if not all of your ammonia every time you use it, this will only prolong your cycle, so try to use Prime or Amquel instead which will simply detoxify the ammonia (it will still show up on your test but will be in a less toxic form which your bacteria can still eat), and use water changes to keep the ammonia around .25.

Whatever you do, do NOT clean off your biological filter media, dunno if you have been warned of this or not. Your tank will cycle over and over again if you do this. BTW, what is your filtration anyway?

What are you using the treat for ich?

 

[BushFishRox]

AmmoLock will remove most if not all of your ammonia every time you use it, this will only prolong your cycle, so try to use Prime or Amquel instead which will simply detoxify the ammonia (it will still show up on your test but will be in a less toxic form which your bacteria can still eat), and use water changes to keep the ammonia around .25.

You can use ammo-lock, it just masks the readings which why some thinks it removes the ammonia and such but it just neutralizes as well as prime. I used ammo-lock to cycle my tank with fish a while ago and it was done in just shy of 4 weeks, with daily 50% water changes and 2 50% water changes a day during the big spike...

 

[ShadowBass]

You can use ammo-lock, it just masks the readings which why some thinks it removes the ammonia and such but it just neutralizes as well as prime. I used ammo-lock to cycle my tank with fish a while ago and it was done in just shy of 4 weeks, with daily 50% water changes and 2 50% water changes a day during the big spike...

Now that I look it up you're right.
Back when we were cycling the first tanks we set up there were several sites that said "Don't use it, it completely removes ammonia".

I have used ACE, a similar product that also alters the test kit readings, and that works very well but it leaves a white powdery substance all over the tank which I didn't like. Dunno if AmmoLock does that or not. My tanks cycled just fine too, but I always chalked it up to the fact that the fish were still producing waste even if I removed all the ammonia temporarily (there were a whole lot of fish).

 

[threedifferentco]

I'm using Ick-Out for the Ich. The tank is a about a month old.

I have a Penguin BioWheel 100 and have just recently replace the filter. How do I do that next time w/o losing all my bacteria?

Anyway, I'm going to the LFS today to pick up some stuff. Going to get some THC? When I first bought the tank they said I would need to add some of that every few weeks/water changes. Something to do with being the bacteria, or encouraging it to grow. Also going to look into changing my filter to an under-gravel. From what I understand it's better for growing bacteria. I was also thinking about some water clarifiers. My tank has gotten so cloudy I can't see anything at all. I've already moved my pleco out. With the ammonia and pH going all over the place, plus the algae (which at the time hadn't got a response here yet), and the cloudiness I felt it would be better if I fixed the WQ .

 

[ShadowBass]

I'm using Ick-Out for the Ich. The tank is a about a month old.

I have a Penguin BioWheel 100 and have just recently replace the filter. How do I do that next time w/o losing all my bacteria?

Anyway, I'm going to the LFS today to pick up some stuff. Going to get some THC? When I first bought the tank they said I would need to add some of that every few weeks/water changes. Something to do with being the bacteria, or encouraging it to grow. Also going to look into changing my filter to an under-gravel. From what I understand it's better for growing bacteria. I was also thinking about some water clarifiers. My tank has gotten so cloudy I can't see anything at all. I've already moved my pleco out. With the ammonia and pH going all over the place, plus the algae (which at the time hadn't got a response here yet), and the cloudiness I felt it would be better if I fixed the WQ .

Ok I see that you're confused and your LFS keeps trying to sell you more and more products, and let me tell you these products are NOT necessary.
Why are you still adding ich medicine with no fish in the tank?

DO NOT buy anything to add to your tank every couple of weeks to help the bacteria, it will NOT work. The product that works sometimes is biospira, and even this doesn't work consistently unless it's handled properly and kept refrigerated.

DO NOT change your filter. THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT. Leave whatever filtration you have on your tank on the tank. Your filter is what houses your biological bacteria and changing it will make your tank cycle all over again.
If you have a penguin filter the biowheel is where your bacteria is housed. NEVER remove the biowheel from the filter. Never replace a filter itself either.
Undergravel filters DO NOT grow bacteria any better than the filter you already have on the tank, and in fact that are a pain in the ass the maintain and shouldn't be used unless you have experience using them. I've used them before, yes they will house bacteria, but this is NOT the best filtration system for you and they are pretty outdated, unless you are doing reverse flow, but there is no reason for you to worry about learning about undergravel filtratration right now. Just don't use it.

Am I getting it right that you completely took the previous filter off? Then your tank is no longer going to complete the cycle, you will have to wait another 4-6 weeks for it to complete.
Your filter will not cycle without an ammonia source, this means either adding ammonia yourself or adding some tough fish to put ammonia in the tank.
I think your main problem is that youv'e become impatient. Your water parameters are going all over the place and you keep trying to change things to fix it. This is not the correct tactic. By removing and replacing filters, adding things to the tank, removing fish completely, etc. you are only prolonging the amount of time it takes for your tank to become cycled.

First off I would say stop listening to your LFS. From what you've said they aren't giving you any valid advice, and it sounds to me like they just want you to buy more stuff.

Next, read up on cycling. Understanding your filtration and how your biological bacteria work might help.

http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-cycling.html

If your tank was set up for a month and you would have left the filtration alone, simply doing water changes to keep the nitrites and ammonia under control it would have been fully cycled in as little as a week from now, perhaps 2.
It takes patience to cycle a tank. There are ways to quick cycle but you have to already have established filter media on hand from an established tank.

 

[threedifferentco]

Thanks ShadowBass,

I need to clear up a couple things then ask a couple of questions.

I removed my fish yesterday since the tank was getting cloudy and the ammonia was jumping. I had been treating him for Ich, while he was in there. (And ich doesnt just live on the fish right? you have to treat it for a couple days after its off the fish ?) I used ammo-Lock to try and stop the ammonia from killing my fish as I've lost all but my little pleco.

Why do you say to never change the filter? All over the box, the replacements etc. it says to change the filter every 2-4 weeks??? but thanks for the tip on undergravel. out of my price range short term anyway.

Quick ya for my LFS however, they suggested not to get a water clarifier as it was a quick fix.

Obviously I have a lot of work to do to fix this tank. Thank you for being so frank.


I have more to say/ask, but dinner up so I'll click back in a couple hours.

-adam-

 

[Wolf3101]

The filter pad on penguin HOB filters is designed to be replaced periodicly and yes...normally you should be replacing it. The Bio-wheel houses the benificial bacteria. HOWEVER... in this case you need all the help you can get. leave the pad alone even if the filter starts bypassing (water flowing past the intake tube.) until the tanks fully cycled.
Removing ALL the fish from the tank is a very bad idea because the BB NEED a certian ammount of ammonia to live on..your risking killing them off by taking out all of the fish. Keep at least a couple in the tank.

 

[ShadowBass]

The filter pad is supposed to be replaced periodically, I mean don't replace the whole filter itself with a different kind of filter, like an undergravel filter or something, which is what it kind of sounded like you were planning on.

I agree with wolf, don't worry about replacing the filter pad until you're done cycling. Never ever replace the biowheel though, that's the main biomedia.

As stated, you also need some kind of fish in there or some kind of ammonia source, so if you don't want to kill your pleco at least throw a couple of danios in.