Sajica group or harem

[Tripping Willow 91]

Hi guys thanks to everyone who commented on my first/previous post, much appreciated, moving on from that I'd like to get some opinions on stocking. The missus has given permission for a tank upgrade, sadly this involves her getting cat no.2 but compromises have to be made. I will be getting a 4ft, likely dimensions will be 48"x21"x16" (120x55x40cm LxHxW), 65 US gal (240l). I'm going with low light, sand substrate, drift wood, few rock/pebble mounds and some tiger lotus, nothing too fancy. I'd like to go with central American cichlids, was hoping to house 3or4 medium sized cichlids (4-8") with a few dither fish (swordtails), I'm loving the look of sajicas, they sound a good size and temperament for what I'm after but so far I'm struggling to find much info on how they do as a group in a species only tank. Would it best best to go with all male, all female or a harem of 1m and 2-3f? Do these guys tolerate their own species well, once a breeding pair has formed would they be too aggressive to have other sajica/cichlids with them? I'd love to here your opinions, especially from those of you that have experience with sajica. I'd love to get sajica but I'm also open to other stocking suggestions. Thanks all

 

[duanes]

In a tank as small as you mention, I believe a spawning pair would kill any other sajica in the tank.
One of my large mated pairs killed another 2 in a 6 ft tank.
The female killed her female rival, the male killed his male rival.
This species is not mild mannered once it comes to spawning territory.
.
In the pic above the female is about 4", so you can judge for yourself how big the male is.

 

[Tripping Willow 91]

In a tank as small as you mention, I believe a spawning pair would kill any other sajica in the tank.
One of my large mated pairs killed another 2 in a 6 ft tank.
The female killed her female rival, the male killed his male rival.
This species is not mild mannered once it comes to spawning territory.
.View attachment 1477331
In the pic above the female is about 4", so you can judge for yourself how big the male is.

Thanks, this pretty much confirms what I'd suspected. I've seen a few posts where people have kept a mixed group in a smaller tank but like yourself the majority of the time it hasn't worked long term. I have also read that a lone pair is not ideal in a tank like mine and often the male will kill the female. Have you had any experience with an all male group? I've heard males are actually quite peaceful together. Your guy is a beast, how did they work out long term, did you leave them on their own in the 6ft? Thanks

 

[duanes]

My pair spawned a number of times, they seemed fully bonded, and between spawns I would add large shoals of dither fish like swordtails as diversions, to distract attention from each other .

The swordtails were my go to accompaniers for any non-piscivores cichlids like Amatitlania. Of course they occasionally corned one, and ate it, and kept the swordtail fry controlled, but also provided interest at different levels of the water column.


I have never kept single sex groups of cichlids.

 

[Tripping Willow 91]

Why did you remove the swordtails during spawns, because the pair were to aggressive towards the swords or to save the fry from being eaten by the swords. I like to have more than a pair in my tank so if I find a single sex group is also not advisable then another idea I'd be rather keen on would be a pair of rainbow cichlids, a lone male sajica and a group of swords. Do you think this would work? From what I've read they should be compatible and I think the colour and shape of these fish will complement each other rather well. I have zero experience of cichlids so I'm relying solely on the opinions of guys like you and others that have first hand experience. I really do appreciate your responses, thank you

 

[duanes]

Yes the sajica would kill any fish in the tank that would threaten fry during fry rearing (not only any other cichlids).
When spawning, most cichlids will kill any other that looks remotely similar to themselves first, because any similar looking cichlid would be considered a competitor for the same type spawning sets, food preference etc etc. For me this means any cichlid similar in body shape, similar mouth shape, even almost the same coloration.
This is why in my cichlid communities, I never keep species of the same or similar genus together
Juvies may be fine growing out together, but once maturity sets in that's when competition begins..
To me multipsinossa, and sajica are too similar to not see each other as competators, and multispinossa are not in the same league as far as aggression goes..

 

[Tripping Willow 91]

Yes the sajica would kill any fish in the tank that would threaten fry during fry rearing (not only any other cichlids).
When spawning, most cichlids will kill any other that looks remotely similar to themselves first, because any similar looking cichlid would be considered a competitor for the same type spawning sets, food preference etc etc. For me this means any cichlid similar in body shape, similar mouth shape, even almost the same coloration.
This is why in my cichlid communities, I never keep species of the same or similar genus together
Juvies may be fine growing out together, but once maturity sets in that's when competition begins..
To me multipsinossa, and sajica are too similar to not see each other as competators, and multispinossa are not in the same league as far as aggression goes..
View attachment 1477434
View attachment 1477435

I never realised sajica were so aggressive towards non cichlid tank mates, I don't think a pair of sajica is gonna be for me. Not sure if you misread my previous comment but my suggestion was for a pair of multipsinossa with a lone male sajica. My thinking was the breeding pair of rainbows would chase away the sajica but not cause too much trouble for it and as the sajica is alone and not breeding it wouldn't show much aggression towards the multipsinossa

 

[duanes]

I never realised sajica were so aggressive towards non cichlid tank mates, I don't think a pair of sajica is gonna be for me. Not sure if you misread my previous comment but my suggestion was for a pair of multipsinossa with a lone male sajica. My thinking was the breeding pair of rainbows would chase away the sajica but not cause too much trouble for it and as the sajica is alone and not breeding it wouldn't show much aggression towards the multipsinossa

Sajica are "not" aggressive to non-cichlids, because they don't see them as competition.
They are most aggressive to" other" cichlids, especially to round similar shaped, similar mouthed shaped, similar color pattered, shaped cichlids, like other Amatitlania, or similar types like Herotilapia.
And the smaller the tank, the more aggressive they can become, whether spawning or not.
In that regard, they are similar to all cichlids, they are generally territorial to some degree.

 

[Tripping Willow 91]

Hi duanes hoping you could give some info and advice on gymnogeophagus balzanii. Since learning that my water would actually be suitable for certain species of South American cichlids and geophagus I've been looking more into them and one of my favourites is the balzani. I've been doing a bit of reading into them and from the info I've found they should be quite happy in my hard water. From reading up on old posts in this forum it appears you're quite knowledgeable on them and have first hand experience with them. What I'd like to know is do you think they'll be happy in my hard water 10kh 20gh 8ph, how are they with nitrate (mine is 20 out the tap), are they hardy, are they a good first cichlid and are they generally quite bright and colourful when mature or usually fairly dull (Google has lots of both dull and colourful images). From reading up I've discovered that they will likely benefit from a cool down period and I'm thinking this should be fine in my house, were of the belief that it's better to put a jumper on rather than the heating and if the heating does go on its only for an hour or two at 18-19c. For example when I got up this morning the living/dinning room (where the aquarium will be) was 16c it stayed between 16-19c for the day, the house will now stay at these temps (likely a degree or 2 lower at night) until January February time and then in August it might get to high 20s low 30s for a couple weeks, do you think these temps would be appropriate for balzanii? Lastly would a 121cmX41cmX55cm (LxWxH) tank be suitable, I believe you had 6 in a 60gallon? Appreciate any info, thanks

 

[duanes]

I kept my "Bella Union" balzani variant at room temp (no heater), which ranged from mid 70s(20-23'C) F in summer to high 60sF(16-18'C) in winter, in my house.
Balzani range from southern Brazil in the north, as far south as into Uruguay and northern Argentina in the south (subtropical),
A small shoal should work in that size tank.