Sand or bare bottom

[framcosco]

thats not totallt true its up to us to provide our fish with conditions they like not just what suits us or is easy to keep clean
You're absolutely correct.... conditions such as clean water, regular maintenance, large enough tank, selection of compatible tank-mates, etc...

for me rays have taken millions of years to evolve to live in substrate meaning they will be much more happy if provided with it
I really wonder if they would be "happier".... maybe rays do this more so for survival reasons such as hunting/finding food and covering to avoid being eaten....in the home aquaria, in general, enough food is provided and with proper tank mate selection, being dinner is at a minimum.... these conditions in the home aquaria makes substrate less "necessary" in my opinion... to what extent, I do not know. What I do know is more and more rays are Captive Bred which seem to be very "happy" either way..... although I can see how it could be more important to have substrate for a Wild Caught specimen that has been used to sand/substrate all its life.... to what extent I do not know.

if a fish gets scared in the wild it hides if a ray gets scared it covers its self in substrate
You are absolutely correct, my question here is if given "proper" care,...... good diet, non agressive tank-mates, "large" tank, etc., how long will it take the ray to feel "safe".... or will it ever feel safe? I have seen many many bare bottom tanks with rays that seem very active, great coloration, voracious appetites, come to the front tank whenever the owner is present, etc. which leads me to believe substrate plays a much lesser role in the home aquarium vs the wild.

people can debate this subject as much as they like but as far as i know we dont find any bare open bits of glass in any river i know
I agree, but then again, we don't see rays in small puddles in nature, which is the equivalent to putting a ray in a 1000 gallon tank .... and we know most keepers keep them in even smaller tanks....

you will enjoy your rays much more watching them dig in substrate
I respect your opinion, I like the bare bottom look, and love to see my rays at all times.

.

 

[Tor-Eriik]

I can agree to what tika said(not often) a thousand times, same with andersp90!

 

[scalesandfins]

just go for sand. its more natural for the fish. simple as that.

 

[andersp90]

@framcosco

It has been proven that stingray pups are rather intelligent and even playfull! The same thing can be said about the adults.

Every single ray I have kept has used most of its day digging in the sand looking around for food.

What is a ray ment to do in a bare bottom tank to pass the time?

 

[framcosco]

@framcosco

It has been proven that stingray pups are rather intelligent and even playfull! The same thing can be said about the adults.

Every single ray I have kept has used most of its day digging in the sand looking around for food.

What is a ray ment to do in a bare bottom tank to pass the time?

You are absolutely right.... rays are extremely intelligent.... can condition them to do simple "tricks" and can "teach" them to eat out of your hands...... no disagreement here. As far as rays and bare bottom tanks, I have found in my personal experience, they are active swimmers going up and down the tank, sideways left and right, being playful with other tankmates/rays, playing around my vortech pumps (due to magnets), playing around my magnet cleaner, and playing around my bubble disks..... always active..... never a dull moment....my favorite part, when a ray comes to the front pane to meet/greet you.... wonderful creatures.

I do a couple of things that has helped stimulate their "activeness"..... I have 3 vortech pumps on the side of the tank... one is placed all they way to the bottom, one in the middle, and one almost all the way to the top..... they are on timers.... the bottom turns on in the morning, the mid pump in the afternoon, and the top in the late afternoon,... all pumps are turned off at night. The current is never too strong as rays tend to not like very high currents. Let me describe the behavior of one of my rays (all rays are different and not all rays react the same under certain stimulis) -- bottom pump turns on, the ray tends to swim on the sides of the tank, the middle pump is on, the ray tends to swim at the front or back panes of the tank, the top pump is on, the ray tends to hover mid to top ranges of the tank.

Once a week, I put food on magnetic clips throughout the tank.... this makes the rays explore the tank more, and prevents the food from being sucked by the filters...... I never place the magnets/food in the same place.....

Give it a try!

I also try to interact with my fish everyday. I have a chair next to my aquariums and read/do paperwork so they can see me and get used to me being around.... although I try my best, I often wonder if we do justice to such majestic creatures by keeping them cramped in our "big" tanks..... well that's a whole different monster.....

 

[T1KARMANN]

a tank with substrate is also far more stable than one without

the substrate holds lots of good bacteria which you dont have in a bare bottom tank how do you think sand filters and under gravel filters used to work

i dont know how anyone can even say rays are happy in a bare tank as they even try to dig by pumping the bare glass but get no were

you also say you like to see your rays and not have them covered in substrate but as you say with the right tank mates they wont have need to cover themself

just look at the way a ray is made mouth on the bottom and feet to push itself along all of which need substrate to perform right

its not even easyer to keep a bare bottom tank clean as the rays are always kicking the substrate and turning it over so if your filter are good and you have the right tank mates to clean up a bare bottom is no easyer to keep clean

 

[framcosco]

a tank with substrate is also far more stable than one without

the substrate holds lots of good bacteria which you dont have in a bare bottom tank how do you think sand filters and under gravel filters used to work

i dont know how anyone can even say rays are happy in a bare tank as they even try to dig by pumping the bare glass but get no were

you also say you like to see your rays and not have them covered in substrate but as you say with the right tank mates they wont have need to cover themself

just look at the way a ray is made mouth on the bottom and feet to push itself along all of which need substrate to perform right

its not even easyer to keep a bare bottom tank clean as the rays are always kicking the substrate and turning it over so if your filter are good and you have the right tank mates to clean up a bare bottom is no easyer to keep clean

I'll say it once more, I respect your opinion. Certain things CAN be done differently while arriving at very good results -- on both ends. Take care.

 

[T1KARMANN]

its just nice to see that most ray keepers are doing the right thing now and bare bottom tanks and rays are few and far between

 

[skynoch]

I've got both barebottom and substrate tanks my bare bottom has kind of been an experiment for me and the one thing I've found and never heard mentioned before is how a rays muscular development is differnt when kept on barebottom to a rays on substrate. I've also noticed my males have a harder time breeding a female once it has been kept on barebottom for awhile.

 

[framcosco]

I've got both barebottom and substrate tanks my bare bottom has kind of been an experiment for me and the one thing I've found and never heard mentioned before is how a rays muscular development is differnt when kept on barebottom to a rays on substrate. I've also noticed my males have a harder time breeding a female once it has been kept on barebottom for awhile.

Very interesting. Can you tell us more about the difference in muscle development? I assume most either do one or the other. You have an interesting vantage point. Do tell.