In my area we have hard water with a ph around 7.4-7.6. I read a lot about them needed soft acidic water and was wondering if they are one of the species where these parameters are important or if they are like most fish where stability is king?
Satanoperca daemon needs
- Thread starter bbortko
- Start date
I believe they are a species that needs soft acidic water to breed, and I don't think they will thrive in harder water. pH is the least of your worries though, hardness and conductivity/TDS will have more of an affect on them than pH.
What David siad, that and IME the Satanoperca genus is more prone to HITH when kept out of their normal (ideal) range of water parameters.
http://www.cichlidae.com/article.php?id=56
I found this article helpful and interesting.
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I found this article helpful and interesting.
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No offense to my fellow Canuck Lee Newman, but IMO the pitting & bloating that Lee mentions in his article is caused from bacteria that is typically not found in these fishes native waters, primarily Spironucleus vortens, and IME it also affects S. jurupari and S. leucosticta. Myself, Matt, and Tom all commented about HITH in the following past discussion, with relation to some of the SA species and their relative ease at getting HITH.
http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?548799-HITH-lATERAL-LINE-DISEASE-IN-CICHLA
IMO it's a bit more involved than just "poor water quality", or poor diet, as many people believe. In Lee's defense a lot of this info was not common knowledge back in 1996 when his article was first published.
http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?548799-HITH-lATERAL-LINE-DISEASE-IN-CICHLA
IMO it's a bit more involved than just "poor water quality", or poor diet, as many people believe. In Lee's defense a lot of this info was not common knowledge back in 1996 when his article was first published.
I agree. An updated article of this magnitude would be great. Doing research on these species before committing time and energy to them is advantageous.
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I've found S. daemon to be really challenging fish to keep, long term.
I kept a group alone in a 75g and they thrived for quite awhile. They thrived and even made motions of breeding. The largest won 1st place in the Geo class at the ACA convention that we hosted a couple of years ago.
I did at least weekly 50% water changes on the tank and filtered with a sponge and (frequently cleaned) box filter. The tank had a little pool filter sand and a few pieces of tannin-y driftwood. I fed quality pellets and red wiggler worms. Our local water is moderately basic (7.4) but relatively low in alkalinity.
It's hard to place when the first issues began but it seemed like the weakest daemon would start to develop HITH while the others continued to thrive. I did more water changes. Added Indian Almond leaves and alder cones to raise the tannins. It seemed to help but I slowly lost a fish every couple of months for a couple of months.
I moved them to a really tannin-y 180g with a bunch of acaras and other Geos. The slow die-off continued over the following year or so with the last one passing a few months ago.
It wasn't water quality - both tanks had/have impeccable water quality. It wasn't died - both tanks were properly fed. Daemon and other Satanoperca thrived under identical circumstances...in those tanks...for years.
In the end, I think their longevity has a lot to do with having the right tannin-type chemicals in the water and managing stress - both environmental (water) and behavioral (from other fish). Once a fish gets stressed, it's downhill from there.
I think that most folks keep them in tanks with simply too much dissolved nitrogenous waste: dirty canister filters and waste in the substrate doesn't matter much with many freshwater fish... but it does with S. daemon.
If I were to do it over, I'd start with a dozen small ones in a 180g... add a lot of driftwood for site breaks...and replace the driftwood as it loses its tannins. Probably only tetras as tankmates as these guys can easily get bullied.
Matt
I kept a group alone in a 75g and they thrived for quite awhile. They thrived and even made motions of breeding. The largest won 1st place in the Geo class at the ACA convention that we hosted a couple of years ago.
I did at least weekly 50% water changes on the tank and filtered with a sponge and (frequently cleaned) box filter. The tank had a little pool filter sand and a few pieces of tannin-y driftwood. I fed quality pellets and red wiggler worms. Our local water is moderately basic (7.4) but relatively low in alkalinity.
It's hard to place when the first issues began but it seemed like the weakest daemon would start to develop HITH while the others continued to thrive. I did more water changes. Added Indian Almond leaves and alder cones to raise the tannins. It seemed to help but I slowly lost a fish every couple of months for a couple of months.
I moved them to a really tannin-y 180g with a bunch of acaras and other Geos. The slow die-off continued over the following year or so with the last one passing a few months ago.
It wasn't water quality - both tanks had/have impeccable water quality. It wasn't died - both tanks were properly fed. Daemon and other Satanoperca thrived under identical circumstances...in those tanks...for years.
In the end, I think their longevity has a lot to do with having the right tannin-type chemicals in the water and managing stress - both environmental (water) and behavioral (from other fish). Once a fish gets stressed, it's downhill from there.
I think that most folks keep them in tanks with simply too much dissolved nitrogenous waste: dirty canister filters and waste in the substrate doesn't matter much with many freshwater fish... but it does with S. daemon.
If I were to do it over, I'd start with a dozen small ones in a 180g... add a lot of driftwood for site breaks...and replace the driftwood as it loses its tannins. Probably only tetras as tankmates as these guys can easily get bullied.
Matt
Thanks for the input Matt. I couldn't agree more that Satanoperca in general are highly intolerant if nitrogenous waste, with the spotted races being more sensitive. A much as I love these fish, I can't bear to keep more than a small group right now for fear that they will inevitably waste away.
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