Scientist have pretty good proof of dark matter!

[Euge]

Just to clarify I didn't say neutrinos were a theory, I might not have been clear, I meant "they", as in they exist, are part of the missing universe puzzle.

I know what a neutrino is, for I am nerd enough to study physics,string theory, m theory, diminsions,.

I think perhaps you are getting dark matter and dark energy confused?

You can see dark matter if it transits an object that is known the backround light would be "effected" so our network of telescopes (hubble, chandra, spitzer, to name the major ones) can capture it!

That is NOT how they calculate mass!....Gravatational microlensing (wich is what I think you might have meant?) Is an event where a star transits a star and the back star literally magnifies the closer star making the change calculable.

It does not say it will show a mass distribution......."The RING is the first detection of dark matter with a UNIQUE structure DIFFERENT from the distribution of both the galaxies and the hot gas in the cluster". (NASA NEWS RELEASE 2007)

That means in english you can see an obvious RING that is diff from the sorrounding galaxies or hot gas in the cluster of galaxies. (They mentioned 1 thing ) that is in question.

Long story short there will be a picture!....I yield the rest of my time to the opponent. lol (parli pro inside joke)

so. confused. brain. hurting.

 

[CHOMPERS]

Just to clarify I didn't say neutrinos were a theory, I might not have been clear, I meant "they", as in they exist, are part of the missing universe puzzle.

I took it wrong, sorry.

I know what a neutrino is, for I am nerd enough to study physics,string theory, m theory, diminsions,.

String theory is as far as I go. I got lost after reading the latest on the God partical. Interesting stuff but it gets intimidating.

I think I am going to pass the nerd torch on to you

I think perhaps you are getting dark matter and dark energy confused?

Ummm...you are going to have to tell me what dark energy is. I guess I have been out of the loop for too long.

You can see dark matter if it transits an object that is known the backround light would be "effected" so our network of telescopes (hubble, chandra, spitzer, to name the major ones) can capture it!

See, now you are making me look bad. I like it.

That is NOT how they calculate mass!....Gravatational microlensing (wich is what I think you might have meant?) Is an event where a star transits a star and the back star literally magnifies the closer star making the change calculable.

You out nerded me again I haven't been involved with astronomy for at least ten years so I am plenty rusty

It does not say it will show a mass distribution......."The RING is the first detection of dark matter with a UNIQUE structure DIFFERENT from the distribution of both the galaxies and the hot gas in the cluster". (NASA NEWS RELEASE 2007)

That means in english you can see an obvious RING that is diff from the sorrounding galaxies or hot gas in the cluster of galaxies. (They mentioned 1 thing ) that is in question.

Long story short there will be a picture!....I yield the rest of my time to the opponent. lol (parli pro inside joke)

I am hoping you are right. I like pictures. They simplify things. The intellect in me can grasp the concept that Edwin Hubble dealt with in theorizing the dark matter...but there is a part of me that wants to exist in trailer parks and it wants pictures.

Can't wait for the pictures though.

 

[CHOMPERS]

ps just for disscussion........ do you guys think electrons exist ??? what do you mean REALLY exist ...its a problem when you say a quantum particle is real......or do you mean that experiments were performed and the results are consistent with a theorectically described quantum particle...does that mean they really exist or theory and experiment are not mutually exclusive ??

When you start talking about quarks and quantum particals and how they interact, it begins to seem like they don't really exist. For that matter, it seems like everything fails to exist as we know it. Everything is organized blips of energy.

 

[bigspizz]

I took it wrong, sorry.

String theory is as far as I go. I got lost after reading the latest on the God partical. Interesting stuff but it gets intimidating.

I think I am going to pass the nerd torch on to you

Ummm...you are going to have to tell me what dark energy is. I guess I have been out of the loop for too long.

See, now you are making me look bad. I like it.

You out nerded me again I haven't been involved with astronomy for at least ten years so I am plenty rusty

I am hoping you are right. I like pictures. They simplify things. The intellect in me can grasp the concept that Edwin Hubble dealt with in theorizing the dark matter...but there is a part of me that wants to exist in trailer parks and it wants pictures.

Can't wait for the pictures though.

I am with you on the pics! I will make it my desktop for a couple weeks....In 20 years NASA is going to erect an aray of telescopes (all with hubble power) I think they said 40 in a honeycomb, way out between mars and jupiter (the distance helps keep the scopes cool and blocks our suns influance/glare) . They will act as 1 very very big telescope and we will see planets close enough to SEE if there is/was life....That and the high def moon mission comin up are my main intrests mission wise.

Almost all of the "pics" we see are false color x ray images. Our eyes see light but most of the matter in the universe emits no light. Only stars and the events of their lives emit light. The image will proly be a false color x-ray image. the colors are kept the same on the diff wave lengths of x ray the gas/cluster emits.

Dark energy is said to occupy 70% percent while dark matter is 25% "normal" matter is the minority at 5 Percent. The arguments about the nature of dark matter are as follows....

Theory1:machos (Massive compact halo objects) A invisible halo holding things together and giving them form round/spiral/sombrarro..ect.

Theory2: wimps (weakly interactive massive particles) Particles react and annihilate each other in every "empty" space, in space...giving things there form.

And as far as the nerd torch.....

Big Spizz clears his throat in preporation of his exeptance speach

First of all I would like to thank god......

 

[Arachnar]

If you guys want to read more about this stuff Alpha and OMega was a good book and sorta confusing,i liked it. It just kinda goes through a history of the universe and our discoveries as well as neutrinos,quarks, and other particles they have no proof on that they exist except based on mathematics.

 

[bigspizz]

Dark matter in the galaxy cluster CL 0152-1357 is mapped in purple. The yellowish galaxies are the visible cluster member galaxies forming a filamentary structure, possibly in the process of merging. Credit: Jee et al. 2005, Astrophysical Journal

 

[CHOMPERS]

I missed it. Did they say how they determined it is dark matter? Pictures in astronomy are not really evidence the way people think of them. They are more like artists renderings. All pictures from Space (beyond the Solar System) are only shades of gray (and black & white). All color is added to represent a wavelength or phenomenon. Pictures are actually a combination of multiple images that are layered on top of each other.

Purple was the color of choice because the public will want dark matter to be 'dark'. The question of the day is what stands out to tell the scientists/astronomers that something different is there, and how did they determine it is dark matter?

 

[bigspizz]

The shaded purple as you said is true....but take a closer look at the microlensing of galixies in the backround.....that is on a scale NEVER before seen! ......That is how they know. and an even sloser look reveals the "ring" the brightest spot is at 3-5 o clock on the ring. the really bright dot...is an extremly magnified galaxy far far away......so far away the light is from almost 10 billion years ago!

 

[CHOMPERS]

cool, looking back on it knowing that gives it more meaning. Very cool. I wish there was another picture of it with the red shifts.

 

[bigspizz]

here is a better pic

A ghostly ring of dark matter floating in the galaxy cluster ZwCl0024+1652, one of the strongest pieces of evidence to date for the existence of dark matter. Astronomers think the dark-matter ring was produced from a collision between two gigantic clusters. Credit: ESA/Hubble