SCORE! pair of free Xingu Is

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I guess I can sorta see it from the bilateral line but they just dont look like any johanna i've ever seen before especially at that size (its not like they are 'small' anymore. Most tend to develop more colour/features etc.. by 4"). The body shape is so different and the snout is very pointed... The fin shape looks different... the eyes are not red(which most johanna are)...

Like I asked... where are the nostrils on these fish? pretty much on the upper lip or set further back?
 
Its the body shape that is really bothering me... It just doesnt seem right for a juvi (nevermind adult) johanna. At 4" it shouldnt look that tiny or pointed anymore(should be bulking up considering it looks like they have no problem eating). I've seen a fair share of different types of johanna juvies and they did not have this body shape or quite the same marking style when at 3-5" long (and I know they were johannas particularly because I've raised two of the types)

Also, it appears as though the fish on the left in the second picture may have markings (Striping) similar to say a juvie ven (I know its not a ven, im just comparing the marking appearance).

I was doing a bit of digging and ended up back on mostly cichlids (pikecichlid.com).

Here is a chart: http://pikecichlid.com/art-lugubris.html
(look at the lugubris group chart for described species then compare the characteristics of johanna and then ternetzi). IMO the ternetzi is a better match in this situation.

And here is their info page about ternetzi..
http://pikecichlid.com/ternetzipage.html

Please take these observations and info account into my reasoning for thinking these animals are not C. johanna.

Cecropia: Can you please get a picture (take the fish out of water to make the shot easy to take) of the side/head/dorsal region of the fish (so front to back angle from a side/top).? It should be doable in one shot. This will help us better confirm the identification. Im also interested in seeing the placement of the nostrils relative to the labia(upper lip) as previously mentioned. It is a fairly distinct feature of johanna.

Thanks and cheers,

Chris
 
I'll try to catch one later today. They are super fast.

The nostrils are set far apart, with one almost touching each opposite corner of their mouths. The gill covers are starting to show a bit of irridecent white under the lateral line.
 
Pike cichlids are crazy quick haha.

So you are saying that the nostrils are nearly touching the upper lip or simply that they are far apart from each other?
 
To me that suggests it is not a johanna. Far apart (from side to side) is just normal placement.

Here is my adult male johanna for comparison. (My female of a different variety has nostrils even closer to the labia).
IMG00017-20100601-2100.jpg



here is my sp. 'belly crawler' (angry from a tank move)

IMG00021-20100601-2101.jpg



A lenticulata (my adult female has even more spacing from the lip).

lenticulata_pike4.jpg


Some Xingus (again its a few millimeters away)

13855909.CrenicichlaOrangeXingu01m.jpg


Here is another johanna for reference again. You can see the nostril almost blends on to the lip.

_MG_7517-02.jpg


Another Johanna:

mg7534010bp.jpg



(those last two are off this site)


My C. regani are super spaced from the nostril to the lip.

Anyways you get the picture. I think the large spacing (2-3mm is lots on a small fish) is indicative of it not being johanna. Its possible you have the much less common C. ternetzi (which would be cool... cause you can find a johanna anyday).

Thats just my opinion..

Any luck on the picture?

Cheers,

Chris
 
The nostrils would deffinately define if it is johanna or not. Without a clear shot of the nostrils, all we can go on is the thick lateral band. Johanna is the only one we've seen in the hobby with a thick band like that.

But I would seriously doubt that it would be a C. ternetzi ... even if they turn out not to be johanni. French Guiana has strict collecting and exporting laws, both are 100% illegal. Brazil only allows commercial collectors, none of which are near the French Guiana border. Suriname does allow collection, but has no commerical ones. So unless they were collected and brought back from someone that's been down there like Vinny Kutty ... the odds would be against C. ternetzi.
 
Well, the odds may certainly be against it, but I was just suggesting an alternate since I did not think it was johanna.

And yeah thats definitely why I brought up the nostril positioning.
 
Wow. Interesting.

Didn't get around to the pic today the GF had me running all over the place for her Asellus tank. I'll def net one of them in the morning, the pics of the others have absolutely piqued my interest as the nostril placement on my pair looks like the lent's placement in the above photo.

ADD: Kinda exciting it reminds me of thinking I had a C. Lepidota and it turned out to be C. proteus :)
 
Ill post pics of the johannas i used to have. They are the ones i have in my avatar. I bought them at about 1.5" and they were about 12" when i lost them. I hope i still have pictures of their full transition.

look identical to the ones in this thread.
 
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