Setting up a predator salt tank
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I don't get what you mean by this. Are you saying that it's impossible to cycle with just live rock, you need the live sand to is what you are implying.TheCanuck;4215827; said:
So when you set up your 72g tank you just used live sand and lace rock? Nothing more? Or some live rock in there too? What the ratio like 3:1 3 being lace rock or?
BTW thanks all for the help, this is why I joined MFK in the first place to get some good help. I guess after this above stuff is answered I'm going to leave the thread at what it is and in 3 weeks I'll start like a journal or something on the build.
Ahhhh, yes powerheads. I forgot to put those down. I will be getting some koralias also.
I have a test kit already.
I have a test kit already.
TheCanuck;4215827; said:
i agree sand is potentially the better filter when compared to LR if kept properly, but with that said i think quality LR is a far easier thing to use as the main source of bio for a newb. also with quality live rock(read: cured with some coraline growth) you can achieve an instant cycle
Its still a work in progress but here is the journal for the one I set up. It has only been running for 2 months and has a long way to go but maybe it can help you with some do's and Don'ts
http://tanks4thememories.blogspot.com/p/47-gallon-xt-sw-fowlr-predator-tank.html#top1
It is just a grow out tank and it needs more LR but I Hope it helps.
http://tanks4thememories.blogspot.com/p/47-gallon-xt-sw-fowlr-predator-tank.html#top1
It is just a grow out tank and it needs more LR but I Hope it helps.
Unless you know someone with an established tank already, you will not be buying "live sand" from the store. The stuff they sell in the bags that says "live sand" is BS. Think about it: How could bacteria live in a sealed bag for months until someone buys it? All the bacteria that makes live sand "live" is dead in the bag.
Personally, I just used play sand from Home Depot. Heck of a lot cheaper than what you'll pay at the lfs and it will eventually be populated with beneficial bacteria, making it "live."
Play sand may not look as pretty, but it works just fine. I used it in my tank for years without any problems.
Really, you don't need sand at all if you have enough live rock and filtration. You might want to consider this because pred tanks tend to be pretty messy.
Go to any saltwater tank forum and you'll see countless threads about the benefits of live sand/bare bottom tanks and everything inbetween.
Personally, I just used play sand from Home Depot. Heck of a lot cheaper than what you'll pay at the lfs and it will eventually be populated with beneficial bacteria, making it "live."
Play sand may not look as pretty, but it works just fine. I used it in my tank for years without any problems.
Really, you don't need sand at all if you have enough live rock and filtration. You might want to consider this because pred tanks tend to be pretty messy.
Go to any saltwater tank forum and you'll see countless threads about the benefits of live sand/bare bottom tanks and everything inbetween.
EastBay;4216272; said:
I agree the stuff they sell as "Live Sand" is anything but "Live". However if you get live rock and any quality aragonite sand the sand will eventually become "Live" as the bacteria colonize it. Infact one thing I have learned is as long as you have enough "Live Rock" to support your stocking anything else you add in the realm of substrate or rock will eventually become 'Live"...lol If you look in my link I provided I dealt with this issue myself as well. I found it is very important to have "LR" and it is useful to have aragonite sand to help with buffering. To "Jump" start my filter I used the muck from the bottom of the live rock holding tank. Basically in about 5 days the tank was cycled.
EastBay;4216272; said:
tanks4thememories;4216333; said:
Though neither of you know the benefits. Buying that sand has more benefits than you think. Trace elements alone are incredible. He is also using lace rock and not live rock, which a good "live sand" is what he will need. Especially for a Predator or a large community FOWLR. How do you think bio spira is alive? Its live bacteria sealed in a bottle. There are plenty of other live additives as well that can be sealed and stored away until needed use. The vast majority of micro organisms that come in the caribea sea sand is incredible and i stand behind that stuff 100%. While yes sand will become alive, this is his first salt tank and he is going with lace and not live rock. You have to be crazy to tell me live rock is a better bio filter than sand. Thats the biggest joke i have ever heard. Also the idiots who have bare bottom tanks could be 150% more effective by putting sand inside their tanks and taking out the live rock. Why do you think 20,000 gallon tanks are ran off of sand filters.
"Millions of living bacteria per ounce and is proven to reduce nitrates. "
Thats what the bag claims and i have done testing on smaller tanks and watch nitrates disappear because of this stuff.
Arag-Alive has more surface area for bacterial porosity; approximately 20,000 square inches per cubic inch! Arag-Alive will dramatically reduce cycling time in new set-ups because it contains millions of heterotrophic, autotrophic, and chemolithotrophic bacteria.
Arag-Alive has 381,000 ppm calcium, 7,390 ppm strontium, 1050 ppm magnesium, 590,000 ppm carbonate (buffer), 56 ppm potassium, and is lowest in phosphate and has no silica. Arag-Alive also provides molybdenum, barium, boron, selenium, beryllium, and other essential ocean trace elements.
I dont particularly like this exact bag of "live" sand but its claims are unbeatable. While your "getting" by with your play sand you have had to take other extensive measures to add up for what your lacking. May i ask if you can manage a stable ph, good calcium levels, strongtium, and hardness in water? Do you even test these variables? What about your water changes, cause i dump at least a lb a day of food into my system and still have no nitrates. My levels all stay balanced as well. While people argue about the trace elements being necessary i believe the sand gives you an amazing kick start and sets you up for all your element levels, and salt/ replacing them keeps the numbers stable.
I just don't see why people don't understand it is so very important... The two most important things in the ocean are Sand and Algae. Without them the ocean would be a toxic pool.
BTW did you know play sand adds to your phosphates and most other sands will leech over time as well? Ever wonder why you have those algae problems?
ALSO heres a quote from kevin888. He is a saltwater genius, and will get into the deepest depths of any facts you want to know about saltwater.
"This is somewhat true, I don't disagree that live rock is a good biofilter, but sand is better period. The misconseption that live rock is the most important biofiltration was created by the people who sell live rock so they can sell more.
You would be surprized how effective a DSB can be, you don't need hundreds gallons of water flowing through your bio every second for it to work. The Nitrogen compounds disperce through the water, and therefore when there is a lower concentration in the sand due to consumption the Nitrogen flows to the area of low concentration, thats just basic chemisty/biology, high flows to low untill equal.
Infact with a proper DSB running a fork through can nuke your system as it will cause a huge dieout in the micro inverts that live in your sand, but when not disturbed will never cause a problem. The idea is to have a diverce ecosystem contained in the sand, full of pods, micro stars, worms, bacteria, snales, etc when up to a proper population these critters will maintain you DSB perfectly. Their population/movement will stir the sand so much more then you could ever hope to do (yes they are small but there is millions of them and they move allll day), allowing propper flow of nutrients in and out of the sand, wile preventing the "nuke".""
I would listen to this guy, hes is going to be the first to breed tangs
So while no its not that big of a deal if you don't buy live sand. Just want to make sure your aware of all the facts, and not the marketing strategies. If you buy live rock then sure you can get away with cheap sand, but i have failed my only "play sand" tank while doing this. Nitrates where out the roof, and algae everywhere. Could have just been ****ty sand.
