Setups for having riverine/rheophilic and still water fish in the same tank?

[MultipleTankSyndrome]

For JJ:

I should probably mention I've got a similar setup in the holding tank of my kuhli loaches at the moment (with lots of strong flow at the top for the Botia in that tank) and they handle it just fine. No hiding or deliberate avoidance of the flow at all (when they do go into the high flow part), and if they had a problem with it I'm fairly certain they would be hiding and staying away from it because that's what kuhli loaches do when stressed.

Not above admitting this may have biased my view somewhat. I had been hoping for the kuhli loaches to continue their non-stressed behavior were this the case, and since they did (especially considering they stress quite easily), I may have been too optimistic about whether other fishkeepers could do well with setups like that.
Had they been stressed by it, I of course would not be making this tank design.

Like your signature says you learn something new every day. And it looks like I learned that.

On the last part: Regardless of whether we are mixing still/fast water fish or can without issues, and regardless of whether the entire aquarium fits many times over into one tract, shouldn't we still try to recreate those conditions as best we can in the tank if the fish we have come from them and swim in all parts of it?

For esox: Appreciate that you detailed what you're doing.
I have felt the water and seen the decor not be phased in the intended still areas of the tank, which tells me I did indeed make some.

 

[jjohnwm]

[QUOTE="MultipleTankSyndrome, post: 8441615, member: 182206"
On the last part: Regardless of whether we are mixing still/fast water fish or can without issues, and regardless of whether the entire aquarium fits many times over into one tract, shouldn't we still try to recreate those conditions as best we can in the tank if the fish we have come from them and swim in all parts of it?
[/QUOTE]

Absolutely; try to recreate the conditions in which the fish live, to the best extent possible.

Now...I dare you...try to find a single example in nature where a rheophilic fish lives its entire life within four or five feet, sometimes within inches...of a stagnant-water loving species. I'm not talking about a trout that occasionally swims into a quiet backwater and rubs shoulders with a bullhead; that's an isolated instance, a brief visit where one species enters the environment of another, likely finding it uncomfortable and stressful...i.e. not being happy...before quickly returning to its own comfort zone.

You are talking about forcing these two disparate types of fish into unbelievably close association 24/7 for life...and yet keeping them happy...

Not realistic.

 

[MultipleTankSyndrome]

You are talking about forcing these two disparate types of fish into unbelievably close association 24/7 for life...and yet keeping them happy...

Not realistic.

Not in the context of the last part, I already recognized that this is not likely to work for everything didn't I?
I mean a fish that moves throughout several different habitats on a regular basis, both slow and fast. Since you agree to recreate that, for fish that do this, we should have both slow and fast in the tank.
In this statement, nothing to do with mixing slow and fast water species. Just giving a variety of conditions for fish that live in a variety of conditions.

Edit: Maybe regardless of whether we are mixing was not the best term. By that I meant that whether or not we should make a mix of conditions for fish from a mix of conditions regardless of the consensus on mixing fast and still water fish.
Perhaps I should have said that.

 

[Midwater]

I believe you are looking to achieve high and low flow in the same tank simultaneously! That is the part which I believe is unrealistic in a puddle of water.

I think it can be done quite easily. An upturned flower pot with a hole in it.

 

[esoxlucius]

I think it can be done quite easily. An upturned flower pot with a hole in it.

And then said fish is holed up in a flowerpot for most of it's life because it doesn't want to be blown to the other end of the tank should it pop its head out!

This whole idea is about confining fish to little areas of the tank, when the poor things are already confined to a glass box!

No, I'm sorry, there are obvious differences of opinion on this subject, but as always it's good to keep the conversation and banter going.

 

[jjohnwm]

Here's your thread title: Setups for having riverine/rheophilic and still water fish in the same tank?

I'll just repeat a sentence from my first post in this thread: What you will end up with is a tank with conditions which are a compromise for all species being kept...or, in other words, a typical grab-bag community aquarium.

The simplest answer, if accurate...is always preferable.

 

[MultipleTankSyndrome]

Not referring to that. I know that's the title of the thread, but it's not the only thing I was talking about as the conversation progressed.
As stated before, at this point in the discussion I'm talking about giving fish found in both, both in the aquarium. There seems to be a misunderstanding, I already mentioned several times that the thread's title may not work for others.
We already agreed to recreate the conditions of where the fish live as well as possible, so I guess that's that.

 

[duanes]

I agree any high flow tank will need pockets where fish can sleep, or rest, and are easily provided with rock work, of sunken logs that create plenum relief type areas.
And even on the surface floating and semi floating logs and aquatic and terrestrial plants can help temper and redirect flow.

The smaller the tank, the harder it gets though, unless there is enough space, because one type flow alone may create excess stress.
i.e. a betta that normally live in a placid rice paddy, needing to fight current every time it needs a gulp of air.
One of the reasons I use the Sicce pumps, is the way the flow fans out and weakens after a couple feet, so as not to conscentrate like a spa jet across the entirety of a 6 ft tank.
Pump Angle: The Right Powerhead for the Right Flow, Used the Right Way – BRStv Investigates Flow.
Since I tend to "not" combine rheophilic fish, with low flow fish this has not been of concern, but......
In my biotopish tanks, plantings are of primary concern, and even in natural rheophillic areas in nature, often along the shoreline, the flow slackens so certain plant species thrive.
I had to change flow on my 125 to allow a zone for my water lilies , they were doing great until I directed a powerhead a certain way, they almost immediately started to melt, so until finding the right direction of flow. from the power head

Above before the lilies melted
Also had to replant them on the end, and use mangroves between to soften the flow.
Took this shot this morning, so far, pads are only half the original size, but steadily coming back in the quiet pocket of low flow.

As you can see, below some plants thrive under high flow, some don't. I find Val and crypts do well.

One interesting thing for me....
the fish in the tank above are Cribroheros rostratum, and their normal rep, is that they are highly aggressive and can become troublesome..
But in the tank above, with its higher flow, I never noticed any amount of that.

 

[MultipleTankSyndrome]

One of the reasons I use the Sicce pumps, is the way the flow fans out and weakens after a couple feet, so as not to conscentrate like a spa jet across the entirety of a 6 ft tank.

I noticed this when I first got my Sicce pumps, and I was expecting something like a spa jet at first. Eventually though, I learned it was a feature instead of a bug (as you mentioned).

 

[duanes]

Another couple things that may be significant in trying to keep rheophiles with placid water species.
Placid water is nomally much warmer than moving water, so a fish like a Sahyadria densoni (Denison /roseline barb) or Tanichthys albonuubes (White Cloud mountain minnow ) from flowing streams, prefer temps, and live a longer life in 70"F or even cooler range, and have a dissolved oxygen content of 10-12 ppm, whereas a Sphaericthys osphromenoides (chocolate gourami) or Heros species cichlids from more placid waters prefer a temp of 80'F and tolerate a less saturatated oxygen environment.
Length of life span, and general health may depend on the amount of research done before simply putting "tropical" fish together in the same tank.