short body genes?

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I noticed that bonsai flowerhorn do not really have big koks

so I think that it would be nice to outcross them to normal bodied fish with water koks

to I end up with bonsai fish with big koks
 
The sb gene is dominant, if you cross an sb to a normal bodied fish you'll get 50% normal and 50% sb of varying lengths, good luck!
 
izzy_here said:
The sb gene is dominant, if you cross an sb to a normal bodied fish you'll get 50% normal and 50% sb of varying lengths, good luck!
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The 50% average you are talking about must be from crossing pure sb species? I say this because a bp and texas spawn won't produce many if not any sb fry like the bp. You get some that are shorter than normal(not bp short) but even that amount isn't 50%.
 
I believe it's recessive. I bred a SB pink con to a calico con and none of their fry are SB. Breeding that batch together should yield me some SB calico cons.
 
gutted said:
I believe it's recessive. I bred a SB pink con to a calico con and none of their fry are SB. Breeding that batch together should yield me some SB calico cons.
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Not the same thing at all, no bp blood in sb cons as a rule...but yes in sb cons it is a recessive.
 
crush329 said:
The 50% average you are talking about must be from crossing pure sb species? I say this because a bp and texas spawn won't produce many if not any sb fry like the bp. You get some that are shorter than normal(not bp short) but even that amount isn't 50%.
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Bp's are the origin of the sb body type in most if not all hybrids, and I beg to differ, you do indeed get 50% sb fry in the pairing you described, it's just that they vary in length greatly. Some are almost full length, some are extremely short.
 
izzy_here said:
Bp's are the origin of the sb body type in most if not all hybrids, and I beg to differ, you do indeed get 50% sb fry in the pairing you described, it's just that they vary in length greatly. Some are almost full length, some are extremely short.
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I'm not sure you completely understood what was said. I said I disagree with the 50% average within hybrids because of the simple fact there aren't many if any that come out shaped like the bp. As in shaped like a ball. I said I'm familiar with the shorter than normal shapes but that isn't what I'm talking about. There are plenty bp/texas crosses on mfk... But how many have showed more than 5 sb's(shaped like a ball) from the initial spawn? If the sb gene was as dominant as you stated, wouldn't there be many more sb's shaped like the bp from the initial bp/texas spawn? Isn't that what a dominant trait does? I'm asking because what percentage of fry have to carry a trait in order for the "gene" to be considered dominant. Now all of this talk is for hybrids only... I do think a pure sb and a reg body spawn would make many more sb's(probably 50%) than a bp/texas.
Matter of fact, the regular carpintis pair I have throws about 20% sb's. Sb's can be spotted a few days after they start free swimming. All one has to do is look for the zig zag pattern of their spine...
 
crush329 said:
I'm not sure you completely understood what was said. I said I disagree with the 50% average within hybrids because of the simple fact there aren't many if any that come out shaped like the bp. As in shaped like a ball. I said I'm familiar with the shorter than normal shapes but that isn't what I'm talking about. There are plenty bp/texas crosses on mfk... But how many have showed more than 5 sb's(shaped like a ball) from the initial spawn? If the sb gene was as dominant as you stated, wouldn't there be many more sb's shaped like the bp from the initial bp/texas spawn? Isn't that what a dominant trait does? I'm asking because what percentage of fry have to carry a trait in order for the "gene" to be considered dominant. Now all of this talk is for hybrids only... I do think a pure sb and a reg body spawn would make many more sb's(probably 50%) than a bp/texas.
Matter of fact, the regular carpintis pair I have throws about 20% sb's. Sb's can be spotted a few days after they start free swimming. All one has to do is look for the zig zag pattern of their spine...
Click to expand...
Short body means just that, just because it isn't as short as you'd prefer, does not mean it isn't a short body. If you like the extreme sb shape you simply line breed for it, same for any other sb body type. Whichever type you choose to line breed & perfect is your choice. Many generations of line breeding would be needed to be able to produce predictable percentages of a certain type like you're talking about. If you're just talking about random spawns between hybrid pairs, there's no way to predict that unless you know a lot about that particular pair's genetics. Obviously after a few spawns from a particular pair, you'd get to know what they'll produce....by their very nature, it's difficult to predict what type of fry a hybrid fish will produce, their phenotypes are just so wildly variable.
If your sb's have an obviously crooked spine, you may want to seriously consider new stock. A good sb should never be so visibly deformed.
You said these normal carpintis have around 20% sb fry, if two fish carrying a recessive gene bred, 25% of the fry would express that gene....there are several lines of sb cons, many with absolutely no parrot blood in their line. As previously noted these fish pass the sb gene down as a recessive. Oddly, many of them have the crooked spine you describe, never heard of a pure carpintis showing this trait, you may have something new on your hands...very interesting... Are you certain these carpintis aren't hybrids?
 
izzy_here said:
Short body means just that, just because it isn't as short as you'd prefer, does not mean it isn't a short body. If you like the extreme sb shape you simply line breed for it, same for any other sb body type. Whichever type you choose to line breed & perfect is your choice. Many generations of line breeding would be needed to be able to produce predictable percentages of a certain type like you're talking about. If you're just talking about random spawns between hybrid pairs, there's no way to predict that unless you know a lot about that particular pair's genetics. Obviously after a few spawns from a particular pair, you'd get to know what they'll produce....by their very nature, it's difficult to predict what type of fry a hybrid fish will produce, their phenotypes are just so wildly variable.
If your sb's have an obviously crooked spine, you may want to seriously consider new stock. A good sb should never be so visibly deformed.
You said these normal carpintis have around 20% sb fry, if two fish carrying a recessive gene bred, 25% of the fry would express that gene....there are several lines of sb cons, many with absolutely no parrot blood in their line. As previously noted these fish pass the sb gene down as a recessive. Oddly, many of them have the crooked spine you describe, never heard of a pure carpintis showing this trait, you may have something new on your hands...very interesting... Are you certain these carpintis aren't hybrids?
Click to expand...

Ok thanks for the info. The two came from the lfs with a batch that came from seagrest as "texas cichlids." I got lucky and they paired up. Here's the thread for my pair... http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?558638-My-Carpintis-pair. I will update the thread soon with pics of the zig zag pattern. I purposely culled for the pattern leaving a few regulars. The pattern didn't make any swim any different(meaning not a severe deformity) basically equalling shorter than normal fish. I basically have two different sb shapes... Next update will show the shapes better.
Now back to the op's qustion. So if someone bred a bonsai to a regular body midevil... Your saying 50% would be short body? I just don't think the sb gene is dominant. I only know about bp's though... I don't have any knowledge with the bonsai but I would like to see the turnout because their genetics.
 
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