Where I live, you have city water AND well water. It doesn't make sense for the LFS to suffer due to end-user ignorance. Should Dell start requiring a basic knowledge test for those wanting to buy a computer? If you're computer stupid, you can't buy a computer.
Should Fish Stores Stock to Local Water Conditions?
- Thread starter vfc
- Start date
X24,
I agree the workers should help steer the beginners in the right direction. I however, was a little disappointed to hear a Big Al's employee going along with a woman's decision to set up a tank with Angels and other soft/acid fish. I could tell by the conversation she was new to the hobby and was possibly heading for trouble. I did something I haven't done before, I stepped in and recommended African Cichlids. Luckily the store had a nice African Cichlid tank on display, the woman loved them, and the employee still had an opportunity to sell her something.
I agree the workers should help steer the beginners in the right direction. I however, was a little disappointed to hear a Big Al's employee going along with a woman's decision to set up a tank with Angels and other soft/acid fish. I could tell by the conversation she was new to the hobby and was possibly heading for trouble. I did something I haven't done before, I stepped in and recommended African Cichlids. Luckily the store had a nice African Cichlid tank on display, the woman loved them, and the employee still had an opportunity to sell her something.
merc123,
The point I'm trying to make is that the LFS benefits when they sell fish that are more suited to the local water conditions.
In your area, having both ends of the water spectrum (I'm assuming the city water is different than the well water) gives the "low involvement / beginner" fish keeper a 50/50 chance of success if the store employee doesn't ask which type of water they have.
Regarding Dell selling computers only to people who are not computer stupid ; that is not a bad idea. Dell spends a fortune providing support for those "stupid people". I have to pay more for a Dell PC/laptop to help offset that cost.
The point I'm trying to make is that the LFS benefits when they sell fish that are more suited to the local water conditions.
In your area, having both ends of the water spectrum (I'm assuming the city water is different than the well water) gives the "low involvement / beginner" fish keeper a 50/50 chance of success if the store employee doesn't ask which type of water they have.
Regarding Dell selling computers only to people who are not computer stupid ; that is not a bad idea. Dell spends a fortune providing support for those "stupid people". I have to pay more for a Dell PC/laptop to help offset that cost.
vfc;918436; said:
I agree and disagree that the LFS benefits. It all boils down to money. If the LFS can sell assorted african cichlids for $6.99/each and they customer ends up killing them, what do they do? Buy more or get out of the hobby. I can understand where you're coming, but from the LFS or "discount chains" perspective they won't believe it's beneficial to them.
Fish are very adaptable, and most fish can live fine in a pH range outside of their natural habitat. Not to mention, many are captive bred these days.
I would say it is more beneficial to have a stable system, which matches the communities water supply as well. Then the LFS employees can preach the benefits of frequent water changes. This way, the customer dosn't have to be confused or spend money on items to manipulate pH and other water paramaters. Fish thrive in a stable environment, and by allowing fish to adapt to their tap water supply, they can do large frequent water changes with no negative effects.
Alot of African Cichlid's don't do well in soft water, and if the that is an issue, it's very easy to remedy by adding a calcium-based item to the tank.
If you're dealing with wild-caught soft water fish, that are particularly sensative to the tap water of the LFS.. The LFS should take the time to make a special soft-water system for those fish, and explain the needs of these fish to the customers.
Also, keep in mind that most LFS buy their fish from Wholesalers/Importers.
Many wholesalers/importers use central system based on their tap water parameters, not always the specific needs of each individual fish. Just stressing the fish out more by fiddling with the water paramaters. The LFS needs to get them in the pH range that their tap water is, so that customers don't have to have that issue.
I would say it is more beneficial to have a stable system, which matches the communities water supply as well. Then the LFS employees can preach the benefits of frequent water changes. This way, the customer dosn't have to be confused or spend money on items to manipulate pH and other water paramaters. Fish thrive in a stable environment, and by allowing fish to adapt to their tap water supply, they can do large frequent water changes with no negative effects.
Alot of African Cichlid's don't do well in soft water, and if the that is an issue, it's very easy to remedy by adding a calcium-based item to the tank.
If you're dealing with wild-caught soft water fish, that are particularly sensative to the tap water of the LFS.. The LFS should take the time to make a special soft-water system for those fish, and explain the needs of these fish to the customers.
Also, keep in mind that most LFS buy their fish from Wholesalers/Importers.
Many wholesalers/importers use central system based on their tap water parameters, not always the specific needs of each individual fish. Just stressing the fish out more by fiddling with the water paramaters. The LFS needs to get them in the pH range that their tap water is, so that customers don't have to have that issue.
The LFS wants nothing more than the locals to suffer from MTS. MTS won't set in unless the experience is positive, the fish outgrow their tank, and/or they multiply. The LFS folks must steer those "low involvement / beginners" down the path to fish keeping bliss. They should push fish that are sure winners (local water wise).
When I moved into the Philly area over 20 years ago; I tried starting up a 26G tank with my favorite fish I had as a kid (well water that was soft/acid). That was not a good experience. I torn down the tank and didn't try again until last year. I switched over to African Cichlids and success brought on MTS. I now have a 26G, 75G & 150G; dumped over $2,500 into the hobby with no end in sight.
Now back 20 years ago, if the LFS had steered me into fish that matched my water........... I would be totally broke and homeless by now! Maybe it's for humanitarian reasons that the LFS wants us to fail.
When I moved into the Philly area over 20 years ago; I tried starting up a 26G tank with my favorite fish I had as a kid (well water that was soft/acid). That was not a good experience. I torn down the tank and didn't try again until last year. I switched over to African Cichlids and success brought on MTS. I now have a 26G, 75G & 150G; dumped over $2,500 into the hobby with no end in sight.
Now back 20 years ago, if the LFS had steered me into fish that matched my water........... I would be totally broke and homeless by now! Maybe it's for humanitarian reasons that the LFS wants us to fail.
vfc;918247; said:
No I don't see the point.
I have kept many fish that are "soft water"... and they were all fine in my very hard, ph 8+ water.
It is FAR from disastrous for CA/SA fish... "most" fish will adapt and be just fine.
dbcb314,
Maybe certain soft/acid fish can survive in hard/alkaline water; but can they thrive?
This past year, in addition to my two African Cichlid tanks, I was trying to keep a few of my favorite soft/acid fish in my 26G. I thought with the additional knowledge I picked up (especially on forums like this) I could keep some Black Lace Angels and Blue Rams. Unfortunately they all died (two of the six Blue Rams lasted 8 months before they withered away).
I really like discus, but I know they wouldn't last more than a few months (even if I did daily water changes). My neighbor raises them, but he had to install an RO/DI system. He is one of those "heavy involved" fish keepers. I'm more of a "medium involved" fish keeper. I have enough time and desire to dump Prime in a 35G trash can and pump out the water weekly for water changes on three tanks. The expense and extra effort to use an RO/DI system to keep my favorite soft/acid fish is beyond my desire and budget.
So the point is that the LFS should sell fish that require very little effort for the "low involvement" fish keepers. If you looks at the financials from a Philly area LFS perspective:
1 - Sell a beginner a 10G starter kit w/ angels & blue rams that die and get replaced a few times before they give up on the hobby. ~ $150 sale
2 - Sell a beginner a 10G starter kit with a few small African Cichlids that thrive and outgrow the tank. Sell a larger tank 6 months latter, more fish, and monthly supplies (annuity revenue). Customer develops MTS and spends thousands of dollars.
Maybe certain soft/acid fish can survive in hard/alkaline water; but can they thrive?
This past year, in addition to my two African Cichlid tanks, I was trying to keep a few of my favorite soft/acid fish in my 26G. I thought with the additional knowledge I picked up (especially on forums like this) I could keep some Black Lace Angels and Blue Rams. Unfortunately they all died (two of the six Blue Rams lasted 8 months before they withered away).
I really like discus, but I know they wouldn't last more than a few months (even if I did daily water changes). My neighbor raises them, but he had to install an RO/DI system. He is one of those "heavy involved" fish keepers. I'm more of a "medium involved" fish keeper. I have enough time and desire to dump Prime in a 35G trash can and pump out the water weekly for water changes on three tanks. The expense and extra effort to use an RO/DI system to keep my favorite soft/acid fish is beyond my desire and budget.
So the point is that the LFS should sell fish that require very little effort for the "low involvement" fish keepers. If you looks at the financials from a Philly area LFS perspective:
1 - Sell a beginner a 10G starter kit w/ angels & blue rams that die and get replaced a few times before they give up on the hobby. ~ $150 sale
2 - Sell a beginner a 10G starter kit with a few small African Cichlids that thrive and outgrow the tank. Sell a larger tank 6 months latter, more fish, and monthly supplies (annuity revenue). Customer develops MTS and spends thousands of dollars.
