Should i expect any differences in behavior? (Upper vs. Lower)

[pjtmanzano]

In my experience Lower jaw species are less active then upper jaw species. They sitting on the the bottom 95% of the time late at night they will migrate u ad sit on top of driftwood but thats about as high up as they like to go. Upper jaw species are also bottom dwellers but spend more time cursing exploring/searching for food and exploring the mid/upper levels of the tank from time to tim.

I find the lower jaws get along better with each other, less fin nipping they like to sit together in piles, While upper jaws tend to move around and hide separately more often, they also nip at each others fin's and even display territorial behavior. Upper jaw species also cruise around and check out or even nip/pester other tank mates from time to time as well. While lower jaws seem happy just laying side by side all day long showing no interest in other fish unless they see it as food.

Upper jaw species seem to be much more nippy toward new tank mates, almost testing to see if anything new is food but it's only turns into an attack if they find something suitable to eat. Low jaws on the other hand seem to ignore tank mates UNLESS it's something they want to eat in which case there is no nipping it's an explosive ambush attack not nips to test first.

Feeding behavior is almost opposite when it isn't live prey, With frozen food/pelets my upperjaw species are still quick to search out and eat food, some even surface to get at it faster. Lower jaws on the other had tend to be slow and methodical in searching for food then they'll sniff what they find for a while before eating it. So in a mix My experience is that the upper jaw species get the majority of the food.

Low jaw species also seem to make a lot more noise when breaching for air, I believe this is because they dont like to remain at the surface, while my upper jaw species calmly swim up for air even spend time chilling in the floating cover at times.

Most of the behavior difference seem to lead down to one main thing - Low jaw species are strictly ambush predators, While the upper jaw species are more active hunting predators.

As for prey size, i have seen upper or lower jaw both take down large prey, I tell everyone picture the bichir as if it were hollow, If you think the tank mate can fit indie that space the bichir will think the same thing! with that said if you consider the feeding behaviour i can see how that could lead to the conclusion that lower jaws take bigger prey because an upper jaw might decide after biting on that the prey isnt worth it and let go, where if the lower jaw launches an attack it's and latches on it wont change it's mind.

It's just the way they are wired in the wild an ambush pred can't afford to wait for the next fish to swim by, an active hunter has a good chance of finding something easier to swallow.



Hope that helps,

True!

This is what iv'e obsreved from my poly tank. I find lower jaws difficult to feed when combined with upper jaw tank mates. When you leave the food overnight the uppers will sweep them clean. When i feed my poly's, i feed the uppers first, when their full, ths when i add the food i set aside for the lowers. I keep an eye on them and sometimes drop food in front if them for them to eat. I noticed that once they bit, they swallow



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[Aw3s0m3]

With mine, I'm having a mixture of what you stated. My ornates tend to just sit around and not move a whole lot and my endli's are constantly swimming around and charge at the food when they smell it. But then my del, teug and lap show the behaviors that are typical to what you stated


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[BuffaloPolypteridae]

In my experience Lower jaw species are less active then upper jaw species just sitting on the the bottom 95% of the time often burried if the substrate allows it), late at night they will migrate out and sit on top of driftwood but that's about as high up as they like to go. Upper jaw species are also bottom dwellers but spend more time cursing exploring/searching for food and exploring the mid/upper levels of the tank from time to time.

I find the lower jaws get along better with each other, less fin nipping they like to sit together in piles, While upper jaws tend to move around and hide separately more often, they also nip at each others fin's and even display territorial behavior. Upper jaw species also cruise around and check out or even nip/pester other tank mates from time to time as well. While lower jaws seem happy just laying side by side all day long showing no interest in other fish unless they see it as food.

Upper jaw species seem to be much more nippy toward new tank mates, almost testing to see if anything new is food but it's only turns into an attack if they find something suitable to eat. Low jaws on the other hand seem to ignore tank mates UNLESS it's something they want to eat in which case there is no nipping it's an explosive ambush attack not nips to test first.

Feeding behavior is almost opposite when it isn't live prey, With frozen food/pelets my upperjaw species are still quick to search out and eat food, some even surface to get at it faster. Lower jaws on the other had tend to be slow and methodical in searching for food then they'll sniff what they find for a while before eating it. So in a mix My experience is that the upper jaw species get the majority of the food.

Low jaw species also seem to make a lot more noise when breaching for air, I believe this is because they dont like to remain at the surface, while my upper jaw species calmly swim up for air even spend time chilling in the floating cover at times.

Most of the behavior difference seem to lead down to one main thing - Low jaw species are strictly ambush predators, While the upper jaw species are more active hunting predators.

As for prey size, i have seen upper or lower jaw both take down large prey, I tell everyone picture the bichir as if it were hollow, If you think the tank mate can fit indie that space the bichir will think the same thing! with that said if you consider the feeding behaviour i can see how that could lead to the conclusion that lower jaws take bigger prey because an upper jaw might decide after biting on that the prey isnt worth it and let go, where if the lower jaw launches an attack it's and latches on it wont change it's mind.

It's just the way they are wired in the wild an ambush pred can't afford to wait for the next fish to swim by, an active hunter has a good chance of finding something easier to swallow.



Hope that helps,

Thank you for the info DC! Ill post a pic my buddy sent me to prove your point, his 5 inch endli ate a 3 inch heckelli, check how fat he is! We really didnt think it would happen haha the pic is from the day after it got it, you can see he almost bulges to the point his tail doesn't even touch the surface, crappy pic but we didn't have much time. I've theorized the same thing you've observed just by seeing how my buddies endli treats prey and how my uppers do. My ornate has attempted to eat my balzani a couple times, but never goes through with it. Hopefully this endli will think its too big haha.

Isn't it funny when you get into fishkeeping w/ someone and they get upset with you for getting the same fish? When I said I was getting an endli my buddy got all mad because he didn't want us to have the same fish, then I showed him what a black Volta looks like and he calmed down because they don't look similar pattern-wise.

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[-DC-]

With mine, I'm having a mixture of what you stated. My ornates tend to just sit around and not move a whole lot and my endli's are constantly swimming around and charge at the food when they smell it. But then my del, teug and lap show the behaviors that are typical to what you stated

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Interesting you say that, I'm curious how big is your ornate ?

Ornates in my experience are one of the most active and are the worst for nipping tankmates and even pestering other bichirs and fish in the tank. Mine spend about a week following around anything new nipping at it , or just bumping and them with their nose or swimming along side territorially. but only once older, any I've seen under 12" they are a completely different and just sit there and are quite calm bichirs. In general i find it's when the upperjaw species start to mature that they start to show their true behaviors. On the flip side i found small congo's and small endlies to be more active then their adult counter parts, probably because of the fastergrowth rate/larger potential they are simply hungrier and that apatite which leads them to be a bit more active and predatory rather then relying on ambush like adults.

I've only owned one small one ornate got him at 10" , he's probably 12" now and still much less active then a 16" counterpart but, but he's just starting to perk up now more agressive then it was before during feedings and spends less time hidden from site. The rest i got were already 14" and they are very active and aggressive feeders i have to feed multiple small meals because otherwise the ornates sweep up everything before anyone else get's a chance and If allowed to they eat until swollen to about double in girth and have difficulty swimming.

 

[BuffaloPolypteridae]

Interesting you say that, I'm curious how big is your ornate ?

Ornates in my experience are one of the most active and are the worst for nipping tankmates and even pestering other bichirs and fish in the tank. Mine spend about a week following around anything new nipping at it , or just bumping and them with their nose or swimming along side territorially. but only once older, any I've seen under 12" they are a completely different and just sit there and are quite calm bichirs. In general i find it's when the upperjaw species start to mature that they start to show their true behaviors. On the flip side i found small congo's and small endlies to be more active then their adult counter parts, probably because of the fastergrowth rate/larger potential they are simply hungrier and that apatite which leads them to be a bit more active and predatory rather then relying on ambush like adults.

I've only owned one small one ornate got him at 10" , he's probably 12" now and still much less active then a 16" counterpart but, but he's just starting to perk up now more agressive then it was before during feedings and spends less time hidden from site. The rest i got were already 14" and they are very active and aggressive feeders i have to feed multiple small meals because otherwise the ornates sweep up everything before anyone else get's a chance and If allowed to they eat until swollen to about double in girth and have difficulty swimming.

Ive raised my ornate since he was 3 inches, hes an F1 a friend of mine who bred his pair gave him to me for 40$, he was the biggest one out of all the fry and has grown considerably, from the 3 inch to a bit over 7 inches now. Mine isnt very aggressive eating, lets the gold dust take his fill of worm tilapia etc. He is how you stated under 12 inchers are, quite calm. My buddies endli though, will shoot to sinking pellets and munch them all within a few minutes. Im thinking i may have to sell mine if he grows much faster then he is, i dont want him eating/messing with the ATF i plan to keep w/ them

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[-DC-]

Ive raised my ornate since he was 3 inches, hes an F1 a friend of mine who bred his pair gave him to me for 40$, he was the biggest one out of all the fry and has grown considerably, from the 3 inch to a bit over 7 inches now. Mine isnt very aggressive eating, lets the gold dust take his fill of worm tilapia etc. He is how you stated under 12 inchers are, quite calm. My buddies endli though, will shoot to sinking pellets and munch them all within a few minutes. Im thinking i may have to sell mine if he grows much faster then he is, i dont want him eating/messing with the ATF i plan to keep w/ them

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Yup sounds right they are timid when young, it's deceptive because they grow so much larger then other upper jaw species, I've often heard people say other upper jaws species are much are more active but i'm sure it's only because those other fish are starting to mature at much smaller sizes at 6" most upper jaw species are half grow, at 6" the ornate is still a baby!

If the ornates growth is a problem endlie might not be a good choice they get even bigger then ornates. Also in my experience nothing excites an endli's feeding response more then a silver colored fish. unless the ATF is significantly larger then the bichirs involved I would not mix them, especially not an endli , something about sliver fish excites them. Also when i say make sure it's larger, I mean over all size, not length, it's the girth/height of the fish they'll stop it from falling prey.

 

[BuffaloPolypteridae]

Yup sounds right they are timid when young, it's deceptive because they grow so much larger then other upper jaw species, I've often heard people say other upper jaws species are much are more active but i'm sure it's only because those other fish are starting to mature at much smaller sizes at 6" most upper jaw species are half grow, at 6" the ornate is still a baby!

If the ornates growth is a problem endlie might not be a good choice they get even bigger then ornates. Also in my experience nothing excites an endli's feeding response more then a silver colored fish. unless the ATF is significantly larger then the bichirs involved I would not mix them, especially not an endli , something about sliver fish excites them. Also when i say make sure it's larger, I mean over all size, not length, it's the girth/height of the fish they'll stop it from falling prey.

Oh yes I've seen that when my buddy tried tinfoil barbs with his endli all were lunch in a week. The ATF I was going to get was already the size of my ornate so it wasn't going to be an issue, but it apparently jumped and died in store :/. Im most worried about my other bichirs over the ATF in the case of the Ornate, as you have stated the ornate is going to get more nippy towards the other bichirs as it gets larger and if its too nippy he's gone. The endli is only going to be 6 inches, so finding an ATF of proper size shouldn't be hard, especially because Ill be getting the atf soon. Basically on the hunt for any ATF other then Goliath right now. I do have the capability to grow out the ATF if it does happen to be under that size though, and I've always been pretty good at judging when a fish is too big to be eaten by another. Got the best success rate as far as my friends who keep fish go w/ tank mates becoming lunch

As I've discussed with Rob, the growth rate of atf is faster then that of bichir, so as long as I get at least 6-7 inchers they'll be alright as they'll outgrow the bichirs who slow down at 10 inch

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[Aw3s0m3]

Interesting you say that, I'm curious how big is your ornate ?

Ornates in my experience are one of the most active and are the worst for nipping tankmates and even pestering other bichirs and fish in the tank. Mine spend about a week following around anything new nipping at it , or just bumping and them with their nose or swimming along side territorially. but only once older, any I've seen under 12" they are a completely different and just sit there and are quite calm bichirs. In general i find it's when the upperjaw species start to mature that they start to show their true behaviors. On the flip side i found small congo's and small endlies to be more active then their adult counter parts, probably because of the fastergrowth rate/larger potential they are simply hungrier and that apatite which leads them to be a bit more active and predatory rather then relying on ambush like adults.

I've only owned one small one ornate got him at 10" , he's probably 12" now and still much less active then a 16" counterpart but, but he's just starting to perk up now more agressive then it was before during feedings and spends less time hidden from site. The rest i got were already 14" and they are very active and aggressive feeders i have to feed multiple small meals because otherwise the ornates sweep up everything before anyone else get's a chance and If allowed to they eat until swollen to about double in girth and have difficulty swimming.

I have 2 and they're both roughly 9" so, like you stated, that's probably why they're so calm but I have 2 endli's, 1 14" and the other 5", different tanks of course, and they're both extremely active, constantly swimming around and eating like champs.


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[rodger]

My experience seems different from the rest of you. I have 9 Polys / 8 species in the same tank. A mix of upper and lowers ranging from 7" - 24". No agression amongst any of them. Uppers tend to cruise the surface more. Uppers are more aggressive eaters for the most part. Every batch of fish can be different.

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