Silver dollar Gender & breeding

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Dragonfly_M3

Exodon
MFK Member
Dec 31, 2018
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Lo,
1) How can I specifically tell apart a femal and male silver dolar?
I know about the males having longer anal tails and a reddish tinge… but I see hat in every SD I come across.. or are they all males?
2) Also, how easy would it be to breed SDs? And at what size off the fish.
 
Thank you Deadeye Deadeye .
Dragonfly_M3 Dragonfly_M3
- If you post pictures of your fish, several people here, myself included, should be able to offer informed guesses on the gender of your fish.
Depending on what type of SD's you are talking about, there have been a few people who have bred them successfully, and of course several species are routinely bred such that most of what we see in the market are tank bred. With 2 species of Metynnis I have had spawns, but not fry. And yet, a number of species and genera have never been successfully bred in captivity.
If you don't have the actual fish yet, then we can offer generalities of gender for some of the common species.
 
Thank you Deadeye Deadeye .
Dragonfly_M3 Dragonfly_M3
- If you post pictures of your fish, several people here, myself included, should be able to offer informed guesses on the gender of your fish.
Depending on what type of SD's you are talking about, there have been a few people who have bred them successfully, and of course several species are routinely bred such that most of what we see in the market are tank bred. With 2 species of Metynnis I have had spawns, but not fry. And yet, a number of species and genera have never been successfully bred in captivity.
If you don't have the actual fish yet, then we can offer generalities of gender for some of the common species.
I attached a few pictures to this post )

people who have bred them successfully, and of course several species are routinely bred such that
Ah ok
I hope to form a breeding pair from the 5 SDs in the tank, without extra temperature and ph adjusting will it be possible? And the tank mates are 2 tetras, 2 feather fin catfish, and two smaller yellow fish which I don’t know atheir species

22395141-86F0-4D5E-9CA1-55F01B7C730C.jpeg

7603F36C-90FB-4C46-9930-81876734D05B.jpeg

838EAB14-3E66-4F49-A3E8-BE0AFCB4A167.jpeg

3DC54EBB-8E02-4DAE-903E-A6A55B3D36B2.jpeg
 
The pictures are good enough to say that you have 5 specimens of Metynnis sp. all females. The pictures are not clear enough for me to say what species, but I would say they are either M. altidorsalis (females), or what some still refer to as M. argenteus (females). They are not one of the "spotted" species of Metynnis, nor any the "hypsauchen-like" (i.e, hypsauchen, fasciatus).
Very nice, full grown fish. They could get a tiny bit larger and heftier, but mostly they are done growing. Better pictures (can focus on one or two fish may allow to give a better guess of the actual species.
Males would have a bilobed anal fin, with much less red, as you mentioned.
Attached one of my male M. maculatus (a spotted Metynnis), and then a females of the same species. You can see the difference in shape and coloration of the anal fin.
Gender differences are similarly observable in all species of Metynnis, but in "hypsauchen-like group" are slightly different. In your species, it is nearly identically as in the photos below.

I have a single male M. altidorsalis and would love to get me a female!
Again, very nice group but won't breed by themselves.
Good luck!

SilverDollars_29May2019_JACK_M.maculatus_COMP.jpg

SilverDollars_29May2019_JILL_M.maculatusCOMP.jpg
 
Very nice, full grown fish. They could get a tiny bit larger and heftier, but mostly they are done growing
so they won’t grow any larger? I thought they were the common silver dollar type which would grow upto 6-7 inches.
But that’s good because I don’t have enough space in the tank ;-;
but won't breed by themselves
:(
But less work then :-)

Attached one of my male M. maculatus (
They look more attractive than the normal SDs, but sadly they are not available in most LFS s around my area i think
Also don’t they eat the plants in the tank?

also I attached 2 more close up images in case it would be easier for you to identify the sp.

08B53E76-1B9B-4A20-8E1A-6E4B01DDEF20.jpeg

4C58D95A-8E30-44E6-8403-5257BCC47723.jpeg
 
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Hi again - I believe you have females of Metynnis altidorsalis.
So what size are they now?, and what size is your tank?
From the photos I guessed they were between 4-5 inches. Is that correct? Perhaps I over estimated. If they are smaller than that, then yes, they may grow a bit more.
Both M. altidorsalis and M. argenteus grow to about 6 inches, typically not more, and most frequently a tad below; M. maculatus about the same; M. lippincotianus (the most common spotted dollar in the market, and not what you have) stay smaller around the 4-5" mark. Other species, mainly of other genera of "silver dollars" do get much larger, even dinner plate size. But not these guys. Final size in aquaria depends on age, tank size and conditions (water quality long term, diet, and social behavior within their groups).

Unfortunately, the term "common silver dollars" is not useful or informative, and several species look very similar. Just referring to species of Metynnis (the smaller dollars), there are 12+ recognized species, but only 4-5 are seen in the hobby in the USA with any frequency. So what is a common dollar is anybody's guess, unless pictures are provided. LFSs use common names very loosely, so not reliable either.

You have a very nice group of fish, and they look healthy. How long have you had them? What are you feeding them? They should eat anything thrown at them, but thrive on a varied diet including plant matter, grains/seeds, and some insects and worms. Pellets, flakes, raw veggies, live/frozen bugs, all presentations work and for mine I find best to use all presentations.
Not having males is not necessarily a bad thing as sometimes they can be quite aggressive towards each other, trying to compete for females; this is rarely seen among females. Although various people have been able to breed then in aquaria, this is not common, and the likelihood of happening is relatively low anyways. So, as you say, you may be better off with the ladies.
Good luck!
IMG_6006 Taken by Sue.jpeg
 
So what size are they now?, and what size is your tank?
From the photos I guessed they were between 4-5 inches
yes, your guess is right they are around 4-4.5 inches approx, not larger than that , the tank is a 35 gallon or so.. i was hoping to get 2 more nowthat i know they might stay at that size what do you think?
How long have you had them?
two of them, for about one and half years, or maybe more, the other three are about a year or so old. i feed them fish pellets every morning and sometimes in the afternoon too from time to time.
plant matter, grains/seeds
so raw vegetables like pieces of broccoli would be alright from time to time?
 
I think your fish may grow a little more, but not much or at all. But they will probably will heft up some.
If the tank is ~35gal, you are way overstocked IMHO, even if it is just the SDs. And then you have a cichlid (looks young, so still growing?), some catfish and a couple of barbs. Too much. Even though the SDs look good now I don't believe that stock is sustainable longterm. If they grow more...not good. I discourage adding any more fish, and suggest to choose what to keep and to move the rest elsewhere. And better yet, they will be happier in a larger tank if possible. Water changes are extremely important, the more water changed the better.

I kept 4 full grown Metynnis +4 2-3inch youngsters in a 4 foot, 75gallon tank for a few years. It was possible and sort of worked, but in reality the tank was too small (I knew it but kept convincing myself otherwise because I didnt have another tank). It is the very tank and fish in the last picture above. During weekly water changes, it was tough not to have the fish crash against walls and decor. The same fish are in a 6 foot, 115g tank, since almost a year ago. It is far better, particularly during water changes, but I would prefer to have an even larger tank. I would say the length of the tank is the most important dimension to maximize, and next the width (front to back); the height is also important but less so. And the larger the water volume, the more stable the water parameters.

The fact that you have an all-female group reduces a little the effect of the small tank, because there is no sexual tension. In my tank, there were 3 adult males and a single adult female; she was constantly being harassed (even though she was tough and defended herself), but she was stressed and her health was declining; the youngsters did not play much of a role, as if they didnt exist in the eyes of the adults. In the 6 foot tank, harmony reigns among the 8 fish, even though the youngsters are now full grown. They are all healthy and look happy. There is sexual display and activity, but also places to go. Also, the fact that there are now 2 other mature females (though different species) goes a long way in greatly reducing sexual pressure on any single individual.

Food - They will eat anything but for good health, a varied diet is necessary, including lots of both plant and animal matter. I don't expect anybody to feed like I do, but I describe it below and you are welcome to think anything about it.
I only feed 3-4 days per week, but on the days I don't feed, I hang pieces of nori sheets from clips in the morning, which are eaten within seconds. The actual feeding I give is a rotation of a long list of items, and on each day they get a bit of 2-3 of the list below, and I keep rotating:
Nori sheets; duckweed (live, always present within floating corral at surface); unsalted roasted sunflower seeds; garbanzos & guandules; cucumber; lettuce (rarely anymore); crushed dried insects (mainly crickets and mealworms); flake food (spirulina, multiworm, bloodworm); pellets (I have 10 different kinds, both insect/worm-based and veggie-based); live earthworms; frozen cubes (mysids, bloodworm, brine shrimp); Repashy Igapo (insect based).
I believe that a diet of only fish is not good for them longterm as they need and love plant matter. I don't give this, but veggie bites similar to those offered to plecos are taken eagerly and munched on with much delight.

Finally, "long term" for these fish means decades! They live long lives if in good conditions. 3 of my fish are a documented 23 years old, but likely more like 26.
Current tank with same fish as above -->IMG_0062 Crop.jpg
Nori feeding and floating corral -
IMG_0200_2021 Dec 9 small.jpg

Good luck!
 
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