Slow die off, but no symptoms?!?!

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Wet Whiskers

Fire Eel
MFK Member
Aug 28, 2008
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Amongst the Catfish & Plecos
Over the last 5 weeks (most of them in the last 3 weeks), I have lost 3x 5.5"-6.5" discus and 1x 8" L418 pleco. I have seen no symptoms at all. I just come in and they are suddenly dead. They are all eating well, looking healthy, good weights, gilling normally and not a mark on them. I've dealt with discus and internal parasites before, but these discus show none of those signs. The pleco has been looking healthy too, with nothing but a nice flat gut (not sunken or bloated). The water parameters have been good with no ammonia, no nitrites, and only a small amount of nitrates. Its a 55 gallon tank with tons of aeration and filtration including two large sponge filters, two large marine land HOB filters and an FX5. I will be the first to admit the tank is over crowded (everyone has grown), and I'm in process of moving some of them out. However, there are TONS of hiding places, and the water quality has been good. Temp is about 79-80 and pH is about 6.8. I'm at a total loss as to what is killing my fish. :(

Oh, I have noticed that sometimes there are a small amount air bubbles that come out of the gravel when I gravel vacuum. Could this be a toxic gas buildup? Could this be killing my fish? But why only one fish at a time then?
 
Wet Whiskers;3619095; said:
Oh, I have noticed that sometimes there are a small amount air bubbles that come out of the gravel when I gravel vacuum. Could this be a toxic gas buildup? Could this be killing my fish? But why only one fish at a time then?

How often do you vacuum the gravel? Gases could be one option.

The other, you water company might have changed something about the water. You should think about having it tested.
 
Pharaoh;3619209; said:
How often do you vacuum the gravel? Gases could be one option.

The other, you water company might have changed something about the water. You should think about having it tested.

Thanks for the reply.
Its the only tank that anything is dying in, so I don't think its the water. I don't gravel vacuum often as my catfish dig in and stir up the substrate all the time. You think the gases could be causing this? Its so bizarre that it only one fish at a time.
 
Is it on an automatic water changer?
 
tcarswell;3619299; said:
Is it on an automatic water changer?

Me, Myself, and I are as automatic as water changes get around here currently. I match pH's, temps, and hardness of the water before I do a change. It's not a shock issue. Unfortunately, I'm completely at a loss.
 
perhaps there was a accidental introduction of a sly predator? Other wise i am puzzled about this situation too...

~ocean
 
Did you autopsy for liver flukes or other internal undetectables?
 
My question is lame, as I am at a total loss too.

Did you spray an aerosol, paint the house recently or use any kind of cleaning chemical near the tank where the fumes could get in the water?

Is there there anyone that died that maybe wasn't found that is fouling the water up?

I really dunno Jenn. I hope you save the rest of them :(
 
knifegill;3619805; said:
Did you autopsy for liver flukes or other internal undetectables?

I tried my best to do a necropsy, but cutting through that armored skin without surgical instruments was impossible. I ended up puncturing too much and gave up. :irked: What are the symptoms of liver flukes? What I'm finding online and what's been happen don't line up, who knows how they affect different fish. I'll treat with prazipro, which I do prophylactically every 4-6 months anyways.

mamapuff;3619887; said:
My question is lame, as I am at a total loss too.

Did you spray an aerosol, paint the house recently or use any kind of cleaning chemical near the tank where the fumes could get in the water?

Is there there anyone that died that maybe wasn't found that is fouling the water up?

I really dunno Jenn. I hope you save the rest of them :(

Nothing new, and there are tanks right next to it that are just fine. Also, water parameters would have indicated there was something dead in there I hadn't found.

I'm really thinking its an internal parasite or something, but, having them just suddenly dropping dead with only to 1-10 hour window since last seen eating and acting normally, is new to me with fish. I'm wondering if its something that is attacking their hearts. We would get dogs and cats into the critical care hospital that were doing okay, although slowing down, and then the owners who rush them in as they were suddenly turning blue. If it wasn't something where we could drain fluid from around their heart, they would dropping dead within minutes. The whole episode would have started just 15-30 minutes earlier.
 
Wet Whiskers;3619792; said:
Me, Myself, and I are as automatic as water changes get around here currently. I match pH's, temps, and hardness of the water before I do a change. It's not a shock issue. Unfortunately, I'm completely at a loss.
I see. Got me stumped then :irked: Internal Parasites ? Do they have clear or white feces ?

BTW just a thought. I switched from prazi pro to Para guard from Seachem . Para guard does not seem to irritate the fish nearly as much and does a great job. It cured some weird parasites on my Delhezi during his quarantine. It also stopped a pair of oscars that both had a bad itch (Gill flukes I was quite sure) All of them are healthy and disease/symptom free now.
 
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