So I have a question for you....

[Wiggles92]

What's the reasoning for the "nitrate factories" if the canister filters are only doing their job of converting ammonia? Nitrates show they are working. If the bioload is low then bb colonies will be low and won't produce much nitrate.

It seems that if the system is producing too much nitrate then that is a sign there is a lot of ammonia production and in that case all the bioballs/rings in those filters saved the tank.

Just sounds like "don't bother with the bullet proof vest, they collect to much lead fragments"

The issue is that too much nitrate lowers the alkalinity & other parameters. The idea is to eliminate the nitrate, not make more. A natural approach, e.g. live rock & chaeto algae, will eliminate the nitrates as well as the phosphates. In a saltwater system, there's no reason to have any biological filtration beyond live rock & macro algae and/or plants (chaeto, mangroves, etc.). Maintenance is another thing that comes into play as you will have to clean the canister filters fairly often, e.g. more than once a week, in order to keep the biological filtration based on the live rock.

I have a wet dry/sump, I just dont have the actual punp, do you think a 250 gph would do it? Also, without filter media could I just use the canisters as powerheads, and lastly, could you possible tell me exactly which skimmer I should use? Like I said its a 33 gallon flat back half hex.

A 250 gph pump is going to be a bit small since you have to take the whole "feet of head" thing into account; as it is, it's a hair shy of being at the minimum if it was at the same level as the main aquarium. Don't use bioballs in the sump by the way.

You can use the canister filters as powerheads and/or as reactors; they're pretty terrible for biological purposes in saltwater, but they will work for chemical media, e.g. carbon, Purigen, and so on (basically just a reactor).

This skimmer is supposed to give pretty good bang for your buck, so it might be worth looking into. It's rated for up to 65 gallons, so it should be more than big enough & will give you so leeway if your bioload unexpectedly goes up.

 

[Otherone]

Most ppl can't afford to do 50% weekly W/C's to control nitrates. The canister bio-filtration will kick out the nitrate and the heavy sticky elements in the water will hold them like flypaper. Hydrogen + Oxygen are FW sticky's now add Calcium, Magnesium, and Sodium, Nitrates become harder to control. Canisters are designed to trap carbonate skeletons - unusable food by-products. These disolve slowly, very slowly - so removing them is also key to nitrate control - hence cleaning the canister very frequently. However Fowler tanks can handle slightly higher nitrates than reefs - 20ppm tops.
After that disease becomes a issue. Yes you can use a UV with Fowler also salinity should be lower than 1.025 it's less stress on the fish. Your water movement should be at least 10x the total tank volume - HOB's and canisters fall short of this GPH.

 

[KellyFrancis]

But what about the bacteria? Is the fresh and salt BB the same?

And, Wiggles, why take out the lava rock? Isn't the reef in Hawaii almost pure lava rock? Or is it different because it popped out at the ocean floor and not on the surface?

 

[redwetar666]

Ok thanks guys I gotta say though I keep hearing different answers from several people, im mainly just confused on if I need special lights and a skimmer, and If I just filled the canisters with live rock and bio balls with no filter pads wouldnt that be the same? I just dont want to pour a lot of money into this just yet before I get a little more experience. Also, I agree I dont see why the lava rock should be a problem but like I said im totally new so I have no idea.

 

[redwetar666]

Also Should I take the aragonite all out and start with live sand. BTW im just gonna do fish only, then I wont need special lights or a skimmer right?

 

[TheRealCramer]

Well I made a DIY protein slimmer a while back for under $10. Works great on fw. I run it occasionally to pull out free floating algae blooms and dissolved foods. Puts out a real nasty skimmate, although not as thick as sw conditions. I move it between my sump and outside pond as needed.

Here it is without the plumping in.

You're problem is that you have to design one that works w/o a sump. It's possible to make one that hangs on the back but I'd worry about leaks and overflows. If I was you I would make a smaller tube that's very tall and can stand in a aquaclear hob because that model apparently has the biggest reservoir.

As for nitrate problems, you can also have a mini refugium of macro algae in the AC hob which eats nitrates. I think I'm going that direction because without a sump or large canopy box an algae turf scrubber is hard to hide.




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[Wiggles92]

Ok thanks guys I gotta say though I keep hearing different answers from several people, im mainly just confused on if I need special lights and a skimmer, and If I just filled the canisters with live rock and bio balls with no filter pads wouldnt that be the same? I just dont want to pour a lot of money into this just yet before I get a little more experience. Also, I agree I dont see why the lava rock should be a problem but like I said im totally new so I have no idea.

Also Should I take the aragonite all out and start with live sand. BTW im just gonna do fish only, then I wont need special lights or a skimmer right?

Just get new aragonite sand; the "live" sand is very overpriced & isn't actually "live" at all.

You don't need special lights or a skimmer, but it makes sense to have them. IMO, there's not really nothing special about a dual T5HO fixture considering that you just swap out the lower K daylight bulbs that you would use for freshwater with a 10000K (or higher) daylight bulb & an actinic bulb, both of which cost about as much as a regular 6700K daylight bulb. Said bulb combination will make everything (fishes, invertebrates, rock, etc.) look better while also promoting coralline algae growth (good encrusting algae). A protein skimmer will make things easier on you as it removes a lot of gunk before it gets broken down by the beneficial bacteria; this in turn cuts back on your water changes & helps to achieve a cleaner aquarium overall.

Just use the canisters for chemical filtration, e.g. carbon, Purigen, and so on. It might also help to use a phosphate-absorbing media in one of them to help lower your phosphate levels. Remember that canister filters create a very low oxygen environment which isn't very conducive to certain beneficial bacteria.

I said to remove the lava rock because it's not terribly porous plus it doesn't match the rest of the rock; myself as well as others can get annoyed by non-matching rock, but it's more of a personal thing. You want rock that is very porous & has a low density because it has more places for the beneficial bacteria to colonize.

I can pretty much guarantee that if you try to cheap out on this & happen to accidentally fall behind on your maintenance, then you'll end up with a less-than-spectacular saltwater aquarium that becomes a headache rather than a pleasant experience. We make these recommendations for good reason after all.