So what the helll....

[Nic]

Thanks Mike....word of advice produce more rays and I wont need to

ha ha trying everyday Tim should really start producing this year.

yea seriously start on the barry white and so on mike... you need to get a mood going in that place...

 

[Nic]

Did the rays have parasites?


Well, if you are really looking for some answers you need to provide more information.

i know any ray i have ever got in that i knew was wild i always did a few treatments with prazipro... its safe and good for the what if it does kinda deal....

 

[Miles]

Did the rays have parasites?


Well, if you are really looking for some answers you need to provide more information.

You should read some of Rudy's previous posts before probing for the obvious.. he's an advanced raykeeper. I know you were trying to help, but rays are not new to him and I believe he was shooting for more of a theory than an answer, as if it was something as obvious as water quality he would fix that himself..

Curious though.. What would it matter what his pH and hardness is? If it was out of a preferred range, what would your solution be? I think alot of ray keepers would agree that it's a mute point unless you're having a crashing pH issue.

and as far as parasites are concerned.. do you take fecal samples and scope them to diagnose specific parasites in rays? I had one of my rays feces scoped.. guess what we treated it with? Metro and Prazi.. surprise surprise. Most meds that treat more specific intestinal parasites have a tendency to kill rays, but I am sure you know most of that.. kinda interested to hear your take on parasite control in potamotrygon?

Rudy- I bet it is a heavy metal from spring run-off up in the mountain country

 

[rudy]

I'll go with that theory Miles as in the spring is the only time I have ever lost rays so it would make sense
How can I combat it???

 

[tank125]

You should read some of Rudy's previous posts before probing for the obvious.. he's an advanced raykeeper. I know you were trying to help, but rays are not new to him and I believe he was shooting for more of a theory than an answer, as if it was something as obvious as water quality he would fix that himself..

Curious though.. What would it matter what his pH and hardness is? If it was out of a preferred range, what would your solution be? I think alot of ray keepers would agree that it's a mute point unless you're having a crashing pH issue.

and as far as parasites are concerned.. do you take fecal samples and scope them to diagnose specific parasites in rays? I had one of my rays feces scoped.. guess what we treated it with? Metro and Prazi.. surprise surprise. Most meds that treat more specific intestinal parasites have a tendency to kill rays, but I am sure you know most of that.. kinda interested to hear your take on parasite control in potamotrygon?

Rudy- I bet it is a heavy metal from spring run-off up in the mountain country

pH and Hardness matter b/c if they are wild imports you want to have as little variables as possible. For example, a Motoro ray can live/thrive in hard water but it makes no sense to extract them from very soft water in the wild and put them directly into hard water as additional stress variable following shipping stress.

An experiment for you: Take a 20 gallon, adjust pH to 8.0 and hardness to 20 degrees KH, now add one of your teacups to it, you can drip first if you want, let him be there for a day with good filtration and such and then place him in a second 20 gallon with pH 6.0 and 1 degree KH, lets see how he does! Shouldn't bother him if there is no crash, right?

Prazipro is for killing large ectoparasites, gill flukes etc., also for a certain parasitic gut worms. Unless you see parasites on the body or have evidence of internal worms such as when they show themselves out the anus of the ray, there is no benefit to using Prazipro.

An effective and usually necessary med is Metro. Metro will combat the NORMALLY present gut parasites found in P. spp. that are able to "take hold" when the ray is presented with excessive stress (shipping).

I'll go with that theory Miles as in the spring is the only time I have ever lost rays so it would make sense
How can I combat it???

Tap Water Conditioner by AP
D/I Unit



Miles, you are an aggressive person. It is funny to watch you on this board attack people. I am excited that I am now in the ranks of Bogwoodbruce on your list of people to annoy! Sorry I was not totally versed on Rudy's past experiences, next time I see a vague useless thread that says "what the hell, my rays are dieing, why?" I will formulate a theory first and then post, sorry for asking relevant questions!

 

[rudy]

Tap Water Conditioner by AP
D/I Unit

QUOTE]
What is AP?



As far as being experienced I am an experienced raykeeper, meaning I have kept them for a long time, however I am new to wild caught fresh off the airplane rays so yes I am looking for answers.

When I say I threw out my test kit....I did. I do feel that people spend way to much time adjusting ph kh etc and it does more harm than good. The only thing I worry about in a ray tank is ammonia. Perhaps I am mistaken by doing this. Anyway I have a lot invested into this hobby and any bit of information would help.
Your right the post was vague, btu quite frankly I am baffled and a bit pissed. Not to mention I am a bit of a readers digest kind of guy
The metal theory makes sense. The last rays I lost were 3 years ago and it was a LEo and a large Castexi and it was at the same time and right after a water change.

 

[Rhodes09]

deff canada!!!!

 

[tank125]

Tap Water Conditioner by AP
D/I Unit

QUOTE]
What is AP?



As far as being experienced I am an experienced raykeeper, meaning I have kept them for a long time, however I am new to wild caught fresh off the airplane rays so yes I am looking for answers.

When I say I threw out my test kit....I did. I do feel that people spend way to much time adjusting ph kh etc and it does more harm than good. The only thing I worry about in a ray tank is ammonia. Perhaps I am mistaken by doing this. Anyway I have a lot invested into this hobby and any bit of information would help.
Your right the post was vague, btu quite frankly I am baffled and a bit pissed. Not to mention I am a bit of a readers digest kind of guy
The metal theory makes sense. The last rays I lost were 3 years ago and it was a LEo and a large Castexi and it was at the same time and right after a water change.

If you have soft acidic water and copper pipes you will likely have copper in your water. This is especially a problem if water is allowed to sit in pipes for any length of time. A basic, but effective, copper test kit is made by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals and sells for about $5.00. A good indication of soft acidic water are blue stains in your sinks and tub. The blue is copper that has been leached from your pipes. It is well known that copper is dangerous to rays to but I have yet see what the effects are (besides death) and I am not going to conduct the test myself! I am not sure if copper causes immediate death or if it is a slow kill effect.


In short - - I imported a case (4) flowers about 2-3 months ago. I did what I normally did with wild rays, lots of water changes, higher temp, little light, no tank mates, established filters (sponger filters), etc. I lost all four within a week. Hard lesson for me, very humbling, I tested my water and the Hardness was high, 750-800 ppm (1600microsiemens). **White Estes Sand buffers water, Black does not** I spent a lot of time talking with a good friend of mine that imports with me. He brings in Discus, sometimes 10-15 cases at a time. He has been doing this for years. I have only been importing for 4 years. The next case I used R/O mixed with tap to level of 35ppm. I also treated with Metro for 5 days starting on day 2 of arrival. Two of them are thriving today. The other 2 were DOA b/c the shipper decided to re-bag with hard water and they ammonia shocked the rays needlessly. For some reason the 2 that made it were just a little bigger or stronger b/c they did not succomb to the ammonia.

I would lean towards a water quality issue in the case with the rays that you have that have made it a few weeks and started eating and then died. The ones that died shortly after shipment I would attribute to shipping stress & acclimation stress.


All in all one can also get "junk" fish to begin with.

 

[rudy]

I would lean towards a water quality issue in the case with the rays that you have that have made it a few weeks and started eating and then died. The ones that died shortly after shipment I would attribute to shipping stress & acclimation stress.

I cannot guarantee they are eating. With Blackworms in it is really difficult to tell.
As far as water quality however I would be surprised as the tank is 240 gallons with 3 fx5 filters on it. Perhaps however you mean water tap quality which I do not know.

I understand what you mean about copper and totally agree. I actually have all my lines changed out in my recent reno to eliminate most of the copper in my house.

 

[tank125]

Yeah, I meant tap water. Maybe next time, set-up 40 gallon tanks with bare bottoms in order to really keep an eye on who is eating what.