You're right, I typically have in the past. I sold the retros--they were nice to look at, although they had no color yet. BUt they were very boring and they grew super slowly-I fed the hell out of them too.... I figured I 'd go a little old school for awhile and grow some of these up. Oliver had some wild umbees that I was trying to get along with the N. ornatum but I couldnt get the proper documents thru F/W to get them before he sold them.