Some Questions About ICK/ICH

[xspainx69]

I understand but this Ick thing is advancing rapidly and I am not sure he is going to make it through with the salt and temp treatment. I had the temp at 84 for 3 days now and I added the salt like i said and he is full of white spots and his gills are flaming red and the skin near the gills is getting red like almost close to bleeding kind off and I really want to try everything before he just dies and I have to sit there wondering if "I could have done something and didnt". I know its strange but think of it like a father to a son...You would try anything to save him! So understand that I am doing everything in my power to save him, but if he still dies with the Ick then it was not ment to be. I went through the Medication and salt and high temp treatment with my native in a 30 gallon and I didnt know about full dosage and killing catfish. I lost 1 channel cat, 1 Pleco, 2 Yellow Perch and 2 Largemouth Bass. The survivors in the tank right now are the natives that survived the Ick invasion and seriously.....They are uneffected by this Ick problem to them its like nothing is even occuring and to the Young Pleco and my Red Tail Catfish , they are dying in agony with this thing spreading rapidly..

The update as of now is that everyone seems to be ok, no sudden fatalities due to meds. Theres no Filter or Carbon.... Its just the Emperor 400 running aeration. I also have 2 Air stones on each side of the tank.

We'll see what happens I want to be optomistic and say that they will survive....but who knows!

 

[xspainx69]

Yeah he died today when I got home from work..His body was completely full of whiteness.


Its strange... All my native fish live on and the only one that died was the fish from south america....

 

[ShadowBass]

I've never killed a scaleless fish using half dose of super ich cure, this includes clown loaches which are very sensitive to everything.
IMO it's more stressful to prolong the illness trying to use salt and heat than just treating with meds and getting rid of it quickly. I've never had any deaths from ich at all and in all honesty no one should have deaths from ich if they start treatment right away unless the fish was already very heavily infected when you got it.

I have had luck not treating with anything at all if the fish only had a couple of spots by moving it to a hospital tank with completely new water and doing large water changes daily and thoroughly siphoning the bottom. I wouldn't try this on a fish that was already heavily infected since the ich would likely multiply faster than I could keep up with and if the fish developed more spots I would proceed with treatment.

You have to remember, you're not treating the ich ON the fish. You are treating the ich that's present in the tank waiting to reinfect your fish. Raising the temp only causes the ich to drop off your fish and complete its life cycle faster, thus making it suseptible to treatment sooner and eliminating it from your tank sooner. Raising the temp high doesn't necessarily kill off the ich in your tank (I have seen fish such as discus that are kept in very warm tanks become infected with ich), but since it does cause it to complete its lifecycle faster it will only spread faster with the lack of effective treatment.

Another thing is your water parameters. What were they? Poor water quality is usually the main factor that causes a fish to succomb to infection. You've apparently had previous issues with ich which indicates that may be a large part of your problem.

Sorry for the loss of your fish
Just take it as a learning experience that will help you deal with problems that may arise later on.

 

[xspainx69]

I've never killed a scaleless fish using half dose of super ich cure, this includes clown loaches which are very sensitive to everything.
IMO it's more stressful to prolong the illness trying to use salt and heat than just treating with meds and getting rid of it quickly. I've never had any deaths from ich at all and in all honesty no one should have deaths from ich if they start treatment right away unless the fish was already very heavily infected when you got it.

I have had luck not treating with anything at all if the fish only had a couple of spots by moving it to a hospital tank with completely new water and doing large water changes daily and thoroughly siphoning the bottom. I wouldn't try this on a fish that was already heavily infected since the ich would likely multiply faster than I could keep up with and if the fish developed more spots I would proceed with treatment.

You have to remember, you're not treating the ich ON the fish. You are treating the ich that's present in the tank waiting to reinfect your fish. Raising the temp only causes the ich to drop off your fish and complete its life cycle faster, thus making it suseptible to treatment sooner and eliminating it from your tank sooner. Raising the temp high doesn't necessarily kill off the ich in your tank (I have seen fish such as discus that are kept in very warm tanks become infected with ich), but since it does cause it to complete its lifecycle faster it will only spread faster with the lack of effective treatment.

Another thing is your water parameters. What were they? Poor water quality is usually the main factor that causes a fish to succomb to infection. You've apparently had previous issues with ich which indicates that may be a large part of your problem.

Sorry for the loss of your fish
Just take it as a learning experience that will help you deal with problems that may arise later on.

Ok heres the next updates:

To answer Shadow Bass's question, my Water parameters are as follows.... According to API Master Test Kit readings (the ones with the chemical solutions) : Ammonia, Nitrite,Nitrate- 0 ppms. PH- 7.0

These are little fish in a 75 gallon, my emperor 400 doesnt have trouble cleaning up after them for now.

My next question is this....Ok so we know that the red tail catfish died and whatever. Now I came home yestarday and decided to put back the filters cartridges and the media containers into the emperor 400. 30 seconds later my Largemouth Bass flashes around the tank super fast and gets like a suddent stroke and just tips over and dies....

Ok so now you can imagine that I am frantic because I have absolutely no idea what the hell just happened. I call the LFS and the guy is like " Well after treating them with Super Ick Cure your suppose to put back the filters in order to clean up the meds in the tank."

He obviously didnt know what happened to him either.....

Suddenly the pleco comes and pushes him around a few times and wakes him up somehow and he swims back to normal. Also, I took out the filters to see if it was something chemical..

Now the Emperor 400 is bare with no filters again.... So I run the filters under tap water and then put them back and this time we dont have the same effect anymore and he is still swimming without suddent strokes or heart attacks or whatever it is that you wanna call it "shock or something".

So I figure maybe there must be a lot of salt from the treatment before when I raised the temp. So I did a 30 % water change.

Now all is well and I woke up this morning and saw my Largemouth Bass swimming as usual and I turned on my lights in my room and again!!!!!!!! He did the shock flash flash flash flash flash BOOM tips over and dies....

Now he really looks like a goner!!!! But I see gill movement , and so i shut offf the lights and lets see what happens....

Any explanations to this sudden syndrome will be helpful.

So now Im cautious

 

[ksfishguy]

I had a similar acting red terror, she would randomly "freak out" and splash, spin, not eat, lie down on her side, all of the symptoms you are describing. I moved her to another tank, but nothing changed, she was eventually put down. I've never had a fish act like that and recover, whatever the cause there was too much damage. Raising the tank temp. quickly can cause damage to your fish, could be that, could be a swim bladder issue. The main thing I am starting to figure out is that prevention is always better than trying to fix a problem. I not going to buy "feeders" again. I am going to setup a hospital/quarintine tank for new or sick fish, feed my fish only what they need, and keep up with water changes (more is always better).

When using a hob filter, I cut a slit in the bottom of the pad, take out the carbon, and use the cartridge. There are some products out there that have "just pads" that will fit your 400.

After treating with meds I always do a couple of major water changes, 30-50 percent, and replace the filter cartridges. I always rinse them out if they have carbon in them. The carbon is good and won't hurt anything unless you are medicating. The small amount of carbon in the 400 cartridges won't stay "active" for long, so you could leave it in as well.

I just completed treating my 120 gallon tank for ich last week. I have done two water changes in seven days and am going to do another today. I use a python and vacuum the gravel as well. I have cut way back on feeding.

Hope some of this rant helps, I just think we have been experiencing some of the same stuff.

Take care and have fun! Get that tank healthy and head to the fish store to find a new friend(s)!!!

 

[ProblEmZ]

Now the Emperor 400 is bare with no filters again.... So I run the filters under tap water and then put them back and this time we dont have the same effect anymore and he is still swimming without suddent strokes or heart attacks or whatever it is that you wanna call it "shock or something".

This killed all of your beneficial bacteria in the filter and now you may have another mini-cycle. IF you're gonna rinse out the pads use old tank water or dechlorinated water. Most Tap water contains chlorine, which is dangerous for fish, incase you didn't know.

What do you keep in the E400? Media baskets, the blue replaceable pads, SuperCartridges, bio balls, bio max, etc?

 

[xspainx69]

I put ammonia chips/ Carbon chips MIX that comes in a milk box container.

Running the filters under tap water was no the explanation to the sudden fish stroke that the Bass had. I did say that this occured way before the cleaning of the filter catridge.

So I guess nobody knows why this even happened to begin with.....

Its strange that this always happens after I take out the filter and leave it with nothing for a few days and then put back the same filter a few days later, the fish start going into comvulsions.