Species of cichla with HITH

  • We are currently upgrading MFK. thanks! -neo

What sp did you have with HITH

  • Total voters
    11
Status
Not open for further replies.
Ive said it once...I'll say it again.
I think its the lack of black water for some species.
 
I would like to discuss this as it pertains to most WC Black water species be it Crenicichla, Cichla or Cichlids (Angelfish, Discus, Oscars et al). They seem to be more prone to Spironucleus or Hexamita as flagellated protozoans of the gastro intestinal tract or external Hex and (LLE) lateral line erosion. In their natural environment the water is very acidic as low as 4.5 Ph and extreamly soft. When kept in water other than that which they evolved, I feel their natural defences are somewhat compromised and are not able to cope as effectively as fish from waters that more closely resemble most tap water i.e. higher Ph and hardness. I think this causes low level stress and over time compromises the immune system. The level of nitrates present also adds to stress of the auto immune system and can further compound the issue. I don’t know if Hex is present in most fish at low levels as some papers I have read suggest and in the right, or wrong conditions as the case may be proliferate or it is something transmitted from fish to fish it does seem that some fish in a system will get it and others do not. This leads me to believe that it is related to an individual fish’s immune systems ability to fight off the parasite.
I have read that the ideal Ph for Hexamita is 7.5 (7.2-7.8) range and its motility drops off considerably once the Ph rises or lowers beyond this range. This might explain why in this instance black water fish seem more susceptible to the protozoan than other species of fish that have evolved in more nutral or slightly basic conditions as there immune system has evolved to cope with naturally occurring higher levels. Just an assumption on my part.
I don’t see this as being related to diet as a direct cause, however diet my in some way add to the issue if it allows for the gut to be adversely effected by the presents of too much grain causing the internal Ph to be thrown into a condition that is condusive to the proliferation of the “bugs”. If the fish is obviously feed something that contains the parasite live or frozen food as an example this would also become an issue.
This is just my opinion but seems to be a logical assumption based on some of my observations and what I’ve read on the subject. Weather you keep Bass or Discus from the black waters of South America they are basically the same, just packaged differently.
 
Aquanero said:
I have read that the ideal Ph for Hexamita is 7.5 (7.2-7.8) range and its motility drops off considerably once the Ph rises or lowers beyond this range. This might explain why, in this instance black water fish seem more susceptible to the protozoan than other fish that have evolved in more neutral conditions as there immune system has evolved to cope with naturally occurring higher levels. Just an assumption on my part.
Click to expand...

Thank you for discussing the ecology of this as it relates to fish stress and diet, it's very helpful. This is similar to the idea that I suggested earlier, but I did not goin into the necessary detail due to time constraints. I agree wholeheartedly with your assessment, and the info about pH affecting the motility of the protozoa is a new one on me, but makes perfect sense to me! I will try to take the time and make my future replies to discussions more in depth. Thank you again!
 
Aquanero said:
I would like to discuss this as it pertains to most WC Black water species be it Crenicichla, Cichla or Cichlids (Angelfish, Discus, Oscars et al). They seem to be more prone to Spironucleus or Hexamita as flagellated protozoans of the gastro intestinal tract or external Hex and (LLE) lateral line erosion. In their natural environment the water is very acidic as low as 4.5 Ph and extreamly soft. When kept in water other than that which they evolved there natural defences are somewhat compromised and are not able to cope as effectively as fish from waters that more closely resemble most tap water i.e. higher Ph and hardness. I think this causes low level stress and over time compromises the immune system. The level of nitrates present also adds to stress of the auto immune system and can further compound the issue. I don’t know if Hex is present in most fish at low levels as some papers I have read suggest an in the right or wrong conditions as the case may be proliferate or it is something transmitted from fish to fish it does seem that some fish in a system will get it and others do not. This leads me to believe that it is related to an individual fish’s immune systems ability to fight off the parasite.
I have read that the ideal Ph for Hexamita is 7.5 (7.2-7.8) range and its motility drops off considerably once the Ph rises or lowers beyond this range. This might explain why, in this instance black water fish seem more susceptible to the protozoan than other fish that have evolved in more neutral conditions as there immune system has evolved to cope with naturally occurring higher levels. Just an assumption on my part.
I don’t see this as being related to diet as a direct cause, however diet my in some way add to the issue if it allows for the gut to be adversely effected by the presents of too much grain causing the internal Ph to be thrown into a condition that is condusive to the proliferation of the “bugs”. If the fish is obviously feed something that contains the parasite live or frozen food as an example this would also become an issue.
This is just my opinion but seems to be a logical assumption based on some of my observations and what I’ve read on the subject. Weather you keep Bass or Discus from the black waters of South America they are basically the same, just packaged differently.
Click to expand...

Agreed entirely. Thank you for your time!
 
Aquanero said:
I would like to discuss this as it pertains to most WC Black water species be it Crenicichla, Cichla or Cichlids (Angelfish, Discus, Oscars et al). They seem to be more prone to Spironucleus or Hexamita as flagellated protozoans of the gastro intestinal tract or external Hex and (LLE) lateral line erosion. In their natural environment the water is very acidic as low as 4.5 Ph and extreamly soft. When kept in water other than that which they evolved there natural defences are somewhat compromised and are not able to cope as effectively as fish from waters that more closely resemble most tap water i.e. higher Ph and hardness. I think this causes low level stress and over time compromises the immune system. The level of nitrates present also adds to stress of the auto immune system and can further compound the issue. I don’t know if Hex is present in most fish at low levels as some papers I have read suggest an in the right or wrong conditions as the case may be proliferate or it is something transmitted from fish to fish it does seem that some fish in a system will get it and others do not. This leads me to believe that it is related to an individual fish’s immune systems ability to fight off the parasite.
I have read that the ideal Ph for Hexamita is 7.5 (7.2-7.8) range and its motility drops off considerably once the Ph rises or lowers beyond this range. This might explain why, in this instance black water fish seem more susceptible to the protozoan than other fish that have evolved in more neutral conditions as there immune system has evolved to cope with naturally occurring higher levels. Just an assumption on my part.
I don’t see this as being related to diet as a direct cause, however diet my in some way add to the issue if it allows for the gut to be adversely effected by the presents of too much grain causing the internal Ph to be thrown into a condition that is condusive to the proliferation of the “bugs”. If the fish is obviously feed something that contains the parasite live or frozen food as an example this would also become an issue.
This is just my opinion but seems to be a logical assumption based on some of my observations and what I’ve read on the subject. Weather you keep Bass or Discus from the black waters of South America they are basically the same, just packaged differently.
Click to expand...

Interesting stuff here.... Nice information!


Sent from my iPhone using MonsterAquariaNetwork app
 
We need more people to poll still, I see a couple of OGs still haven't. please please
 
I honestly think that this is the key: fish that have evolved in water which isn't ideal for Spironucleus and Hex...living in captivity in conditions which are ideal for Spironucleus and Hex.

Cichla (as well as Oscars, Uaru, True Parrots, Eartheaters, etc.) are all big, messy eaters...with Cichla probably the largest, messiest and most-protein-intensive in diet. Maintaining ideal water conditions is difficult and as a result many folks don't (at least on a consistent basis).

Doing TONS of water changes + keeping black-water-ish conditions is really hard...

Stress also has a role. I've noticed that fish and/or species lower on the proverbial totem poll are most susceptible...

Matt

Aquanero said:
I would like to discuss this as it pertains to most WC Black water species be it Crenicichla, Cichla or Cichlids (Angelfish, Discus, Oscars et al). They seem to be more prone to Spironucleus or Hexamita as flagellated protozoans of the gastro intestinal tract or external Hex and (LLE) lateral line erosion. In their natural environment the water is very acidic as low as 4.5 Ph and extreamly soft. When kept in water other than that which they evolved, I feel their natural defences are somewhat compromised and are not able to cope as effectively as fish from waters that more closely resemble most tap water i.e. higher Ph and hardness. I think this causes low level stress and over time compromises the immune system. The level of nitrates present also adds to stress of the auto immune system and can further compound the issue. I don’t know if Hex is present in most fish at low levels as some papers I have read suggest and in the right, or wrong conditions as the case may be proliferate or it is something transmitted from fish to fish it does seem that some fish in a system will get it and others do not. This leads me to believe that it is related to an individual fish’s immune systems ability to fight off the parasite.
I have read that the ideal Ph for Hexamita is 7.5 (7.2-7.8) range and its motility drops off considerably once the Ph rises or lowers beyond this range. This might explain why in this instance black water fish seem more susceptible to the protozoan than other species of fish that have evolved in more nutral or slightly basic conditions as there immune system has evolved to cope with naturally occurring higher levels. Just an assumption on my part.
I don’t see this as being related to diet as a direct cause, however diet my in some way add to the issue if it allows for the gut to be adversely effected by the presents of too much grain causing the internal Ph to be thrown into a condition that is condusive to the proliferation of the “bugs”. If the fish is obviously feed something that contains the parasite live or frozen food as an example this would also become an issue.
This is just my opinion but seems to be a logical assumption based on some of my observations and what I’ve read on the subject. Weather you keep Bass or Discus from the black waters of South America they are basically the same, just packaged differently.
Click to expand...
 
I voted "other" as none of my pbass past or present ever had hole in the head. Keep good water,food and stress to minimum and you won't see HITH.
 
CichlaRyan said:
Agreed entirely. Thank you for your time!
Click to expand...

Blkpiranha said:
I voted "other" as none of my pbass past or present ever had hole in the head. Keep good water,food and stress to minimum and you won't see HITH.
Click to expand...
You both could not be more wrong and obviously have not kept cichla to adult stages meaning 2 feet plus and over half a decade But Love the discusion this is creating tho:)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
MonsterFishKeepers.com
Top Bottom