substrate

[Vicious_Fish]

Just to add to the statistics, I've had a pair of leopard geckos on sand for 15 years now without a single issue. But I don't use sand on babies until they're at least 9-10 months old or past 6 inches in length. I'm slowly phasing out the sand for more large, flat rocks and ceramic tiles.

 

[coura]

Just to add to the statistics, I've had a pair of leopard geckos on sand for 15 years now without a single issue. But I don't use sand on babies until they're at least 9-10 months old or past 6 inches in length. I'm slowly phasing out the sand for more large, flat rocks and ceramic tiles.

Age and size may be the factor that makes the diference bethuwen being or not able to keep leopards on sand. The case I mencioned that is on "reptiles USA" magazine happened on a baby animal.

 

[krzr3000]

Debates like this will go on forever when dealing with live animals. There is always more than one method that will work.

All it takes is one person to have a problem, and then the word will spread. I've usually been advised against sand for young animals and have passed that info along in most cases.

As far as sand being more natural...true but unless the animals are kept in huge enclosures the glass or plastic walls may defeat the purpose? At least thats a common defense for bare bottom tanks.

 

[varanio]

Debates like this will go on forever when dealing with live animals. There is always more than one method that will work.

All it takes is one person to have a problem, and then the word will spread. I've usually been advised against sand for young animals and have passed that info along in most cases.

As far as sand being more natural...true but unless the animals are kept in huge enclosures the glass or plastic walls may defeat the purpose? At least thats a common defense for bare bottom tanks.

If I am reading this correctl, I think what youre saying is that because there are walls made of wood glass etc.... there is no point to make the enclosure more natural looking. Why would you argue this point of view? Natural enclosures are of a huge benefit for the animals psyche. Not only does it help the animal feel more secure with natural shelters, but it also helps stimulate the animals mentally. All at the same time making the enclosure more appealing, to the owner and the animal. I am a huge advocate of keeping them natural, after all its the least we can do since we have them in walls of glass or wood rather than vast areas of natural habitat.

 

[coura]

Debates like this will go on forever when dealing with live animals. There is always more than one method that will work.

All it takes is one person to have a problem, and then the word will spread. I've usually been advised against sand for young animals and have passed that info along in most cases.

As far as sand being more natural...true but unless the animals are kept in huge enclosures the glass or plastic walls may defeat the purpose? At least thats a common defense for bare bottom tanks.

You dont have to keep them on bare bottom, just use a safer substrate

 

[krzr3000]

If I am reading this correctl, I think what youre saying is that because there are walls made of wood glass etc.... there is no point to make the enclosure more natural looking. Why would you argue this point of view? Natural enclosures are of a huge benefit for the animals psyche. Not only does it help the animal feel more secure with natural shelters, but it also helps stimulate the animals mentally. All at the same time making the enclosure more appealing, to the owner and the animal. I am a huge advocate of keeping them natural, after all its the least we can do since we have them in walls of glass or wood rather than vast areas of natural habitat.

I'm not arguing that point of view...i'm NOT saying i'm going to keep a herp in a bare enclosure. I'm passing on the argument (not my own) that the claim that sand is better than paper towel because its natural only goes so far in an enclosure with walls. Obviously only applicable if its an animal that isn't going to burrow anyways.

The bare bottom reference is to the FISH aspect of this website. If you claim that bare bottom tanks are unnatural...many, even well respected moderators on this site will tell you there is nothing natural and glass walls in the first place.

 

[varanio]

I'm not arguing that point of view...i'm NOT saying i'm going to keep a herp in a bare enclosure. I'm passing on the argument (not my own) that the claim that sand is better than paper towel because its natural only goes so far in an enclosure with walls. Obviously only applicable if its an animal that isn't going to burrow anyways.

The bare bottom reference is to the FISH aspect of this website. If you claim that bare bottom tanks are unnatural...many, even well respected moderators on this site will tell you there is nothing natural and glass walls in the first place.

So were talking fish in the reptile forum? This would be something you would need to bring to the fish general discussion forum. As for REPTILES I do think they would benefit from substrate, specially since alot of them are fossorial, now for the arboreal argument I think those species would need more surface area above, rather than below. What that means is that animals that utilize crevices burrows hollow logs on the ground need more surface area at the bottom of the enclosure and vice versa for arboreals. I havent heard of too many fish species needing to burrow underground or too many species living up in trees. So to compare the two is a bit like compairing apples to oranges.

I have alot of friends that have their reptiles on natural substrate and they breed a heck of alot more than those with paper towels.

 

[coura]

I have alot of friends that have their reptiles on natural substrate and they breed a heck of alot more than those with paper towels.[/quote]

Ya go ahead ,pick on the fat boy

 

[varanio]

I have alot of friends that have their reptiles on natural substrate and they breed a heck of alot more than those with paper towels.

Ya go ahead ,pick on the fat boy[/QUOTE]

Who is the fat boy? Is this some kind of inside joke with yourself? youre goofy

 

[coura]

Ya go ahead ,pick on the fat boy

Who is the fat boy? Is this some kind of inside joke with yourself? youre goofy[/quote]