Suicidal Stocking

[shawngt2]

First post! Be kind.

I have a 210 gallon. Just recently converted to SAs. Purchased the below stocking. Most of them are 1-2" with the Chocolat and True Parrot being about 3.5". I realize this likely going to be a death wish for some of the fish and think I will setup a 75-125 gallon somewhere in the house as a scoop and sell tank for ones I decide to rehome (for ones that are too timid or I don't love and or are to pissed off and not worth the personality). The plan is to let them grow, monitor and make decisions as I go along (hoping for no deaths *fingers crossed*). I have had South Americans before and "bullet" my 8" male Jake Dempsey was one of my favourite fish that got along with everything, so experiences vary as you all know.

Just looking for feedback on the plan to reinforce and tear apart my thoughts. Please, people with experience that are open minded with a similar setup for years. Not feedback based on what they read and opinions only. Thanks

Super Aggressive to least (roughly my interpretation)
-Red Devil
-Jaguar
-Green Texas
-Vieja Synspilum
-Green Terror
-Nicaraguan
-Wild True Parrot
-Convict
-Jack Dempsey
-Oscar
-Jewel
-Chocolate Cichlid
-Gold Severum
-Green Shoulder Severum
-Red tail shark
-5 dithers
-Snowball Pleco

 

[duanes]

I don´t consider South American, and Central American cichlids the same.
Most water in S America is neutral to low low in pH, (7 or lower) and and soft, while most water in Central America is hard and high pH (8 or higher).
Expecting nicaraguense (that come from 8 to 9 pH in Lake Nicaragua, to coexist in a tank with severums which soft pH 5 to 7, is not being realistic.
I live in Panama and test water parameters where ever I collect cichlids, and the pH is always above 8, and hard water.
I have also spent time in Colombia and tested the water, and water parameters were 7 (or below) and very soft.

Test your water, and combine cichlids according to what millions of years of evolution, and survival of the fittest has enabled them to be healthy in the appropriate water type..

 

[skjl47]

I have a 210 gallon. Just recently converted to SAs. Purchased the below stocking.

Hello; An interesting variation on a common practice. Many have posted about getting a young & small fish which will son outgrow a small tank. They plan to "someday" have a bigger tank but often do not before the fish get too large.
You already have the big tank and a workable plan. Some depends on reducing the stocking at critical stages.

Duanes points out an important consideration. I also have found life simpler to house fish suited to me source water. May be the ones less suited for the water will not make it too long and make some of the selection.

but good luck.

 

[newworld]

Not suicide stocking more like retarded stocking ha

 

[shawngt2]

I don´t consider South American, and Central American cichlids the same.
Most water in S America is neutral to low low in pH, (7 or lower) and and soft, while most water in Central America is hard and high pH (8 or higher).
Expecting nicaraguense (that come from 8 to 9 pH in Lake Nicaragua, to coexist in a tank with severums which soft pH 5 to 7, is not being realistic.
I live in Panama and test water parameters where ever I collect cichlids, and the pH is always above 8, and hard water.
I have also spent time in Colombia and tested the water, and water parameters were 7 (or below) and very soft.

Test your water, and combine cichlids according to what millions of years of evolution, and survival of the fittest has enabled them to be healthy in the appropriate water type..

Thanks for your input. I have a pH anywhere between 8-8.2 (more suitable for Centrals I guess). Interesting, because my Jack Dempsey was with several severums (gold and green) in that pH when I had my 90 and lived a good 7+ years in there from young and got pretty large together. It was a very peaceful tank and I would say they were thriving. They weren't reproducing, because I'm not into that and there were no pairs, but they seemed happy and healthy so not sure what happened there if the water was not suitable for the severums. They eventually died because of a foolish transfer I did from the 90 to the 210. It was not easy on the family as we had names for all of them and you do get attached to fish when they are in your living room for that many years with their personalities.

Not sure I'm convinced that South American's can't live in 8 or above pH very successfully. I have experience (however accidental) and would say it was a success based on their behaviour and healthy appetites. We all shouldn't be keeping them in a fish tank either, but we do and there are downsides to it vs the wild (where they evolved). The argument can be endless, but would say experience is more important than theory and that people should make sound decisions based on theory, vs vice versa like I did. (again, accidental). I will consider keeping only one region of cichlids together.

Hello; An interesting variation on a common practice. Many have posted about getting a young & small fish which will son outgrow a small tank. They plan to "someday" have a bigger tank but often do not before the fish get too large.
You already have the big tank and a workable plan. Some depends on reducing the stocking at critical stages.

Duanes points out an important consideration. I also have found life simpler to house fish suited to me source water. May be the ones less suited for the water will not make it too long and make some of the selection.

but good luck.

Yeah, you're absolutely right that's what people do! We sometimes make decisions based on our heart vs our head. I'm learning as I go. I divided my stock list into regions and come out with below. My pH in theory is more suitable for Cental American, so the list would be much smaller!

Ugh, obviously I overstocked this aquarium with a lot of 'eventual' large cichlids and compatibility issues on the aggression front. I've seen some pretty successful YouTubers with a mix of cichlid regions in huge 300 gallon tanks living together at some significant sizes. My plan is definitely to learn their behaviours and see how they grow together. Might lose a few when not looking, but I will do the best I can.

Curious, what would you chose? I definitely gravitate to Central Americans the most, and coincidentally the pH is ideal in my setup.

Central America
-Jaguar
-Vieja Synspilum
-Green Texas
-Jack Dempsey
-Nicaraguan
-Red Devil
-Convict

South America
-Oscar
-True Parrot
-Chocolate Cichlid
-Green Terror
-Green Shoulder Severum
-Gold Severum

-Snowball Pleco

-Jewel (African)

-Red tail shark (Thailand)
-5 tbd dithers

Not suicide stocking more like retarded stocking ha

Noted

 

[HUKIT]

Central America
-Jaguar
-Vieja Synspilum
-Green Texas
-Jack Dempsey
-Nicaraguan
-Red Devil
-Convict

Incredibly stupid idea.

South America
-Oscar
-True Parrot
-Chocolate Cichlid
-Green Terror
-Green Shoulder Severum
-Gold Severum

Less stupid than the first.

A 210g might feel like a large tank but when you add a couple aggressive 12-14 inch plus fish you’ll see why it’s not. I won’t tell anyone how to enjoy your hobby but neither of those are ideal long term. I was catching managuensis in southern Florida that were 18 inches plus so that 210 would be the bare minimum fish I’d keep solo in that tank.

 

[shawngt2]

Incredibly stupid idea.



Less stupid than the first.

A 210g might feel like a large tank but when you add a couple aggressive 12-14 inch plus fish you’ll see why it’s not. I won’t tell anyone how to enjoy your hobby but neither of those are ideal long term. I was catching managuensis in southern Florida that were 18 inches plus so that 210 would be the bare minimum fish I’d keep solo in that tank.

Incredibly frustrating. The store employee was like no problem and I went on a whim and now regretting everything. I guess I will need to offload the jag and red devil asap. Maybe the Texas too to eliminate the major future issues and monitor from here on in. The store employee did mention that I could just determine who the favourites are and that I have a lot of time to remove any big problems (which obviously there are some obvious ones). It took my previous JD like 6 years to get to like 10" so I know it is a long road ahead (except for the Oscar).

I am not a fan of a one fish kind of tank, so probably leaning now towards an Oscar with a mix of others that would work OK with him/her.

 

[HUKIT]

It’s one of those situations that works until it doesn’t. Especially, when they reach sexual maturity. Let’s say by some miracle they all get along but with that amount of waste in a 210g would be detrimental in itself. You would struggle to keep nitrates at an acceptable level(less than 20ppm).

I typically stock all my display tanks the same with one large species like such as Vieja, a smaller species such as Amatitlania, and a dither species like tetras for some added movement. The larger fish don’t pay much attention to the smaller species.

 

[duanes]

Many Cenral American cichlids find safety in numbers only when young, as Hukit said above, but maturity usuallly changes the entire territorial equation.
Unlike S American cichlids that exist in varied species rich communities in large rivers like the Amazon, or Rio Negro,
many Central come from smaller rivers where only 2 or 3 species live, but exist inseparate micro-habitats
Where I catch Andinoacara coerleopunctatus, it lives in depressionswithslck flow, and Ithmoheros tuyrense live in more open areas, with stronger flow.
I find Andinoacara many eastern Panamanian river courses, with Darienheros calobrense, but the same thing occurs, where the Darienheros live in much stronger flow ares as adults, and don´t step on each others territories.
The one constant are Tetras that outnumber cichlids at least 10 or more to 1, and transcend those micro
habitats.
In Mexico where I found Rocio (JDs) if there was another dominent cichlid present, the JDs suffered, as in the video below.

Whereas if the JDs dominated a body of water such as Eden Cenote, they flourished.

This is quite the opposite of varied species in most of S America (although the smaller species poor rivers west of the Andes), seem more in line, with their Central American couterparts, in territorial attitudes.
In some northern Mexican areas only 1 species of cichlid rules the geographic confines of an entire ecosystem, such as the way Mayaheros banii does and rules the roost on the northern Pacific coast there.

One of my failed community cichlid tanks, was when I put a group of Vieja to grow up together with Maskahero.
They did fine for about a year, but when a nM agrentea matured earlier than others, over night took out (killed) half the cichlids in the 150 gal tank

The great lakes of Nicaragua may be one of those exception to the rules, and you may find, you may get away with a varied community with it, because they seem to be wired to a more varied cichlid setting in nature.