I wish I would ha e just drilled my tank when I got it. Now I have to do it with fish in the tank... not look forward to that
Sump vs cannister for 125g
- Thread starter Celestialsins
- Start date
Okay! After hours of searching I think I may have something that would work. Here are my terrible diagrams. Herbie overflows with emergency trickle at overflow line and main siphon 1/2 way. Connected via bulkheads then unions then pipe to a gate valve and a 45 degree if needed on the full siphon. No gates on the emergency line. These head into filter socks at each end then through bio and out in the middle. Return pump is hose and a check valve to a T and split into the 2 returns again with unions to the bulkhead. I have all the unions so it can be taken apart when I move and put back together without cutting pipe. Everything outside will be connected with PVC glue.
Does the return pump need a gate valve too?
I was thinking DC-6000 for the pump, would this be good?
Does the return pump need a gate valve too?
I was thinking DC-6000 for the pump, would this be good?
You don't normally need a valve on a return. It may be nice to have a ball valve on the return to shut off water while you're doing pump maintenance or something.
The only issue I see is that it may be difficult to dial in 2 gate valves for 2 siphons. I've never ran a tank with dual overflows so I cant say for sure. My single overflow 90 is pretty touchy to dial in, granted once it's set it's set.
When you're testing out your plumbing remember that adjusting the gate valve doesn't yeild instant results. It takes mine a couple minutes to see the results of the valve adjustment. So I usually turn it a tiny bit and wait a minute and then continue Making adjustments
I'd maybe do a siphon and durso in ove overflow and a durso and a dry drain in the other.
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The only issue I see is that it may be difficult to dial in 2 gate valves for 2 siphons. I've never ran a tank with dual overflows so I cant say for sure. My single overflow 90 is pretty touchy to dial in, granted once it's set it's set.
When you're testing out your plumbing remember that adjusting the gate valve doesn't yeild instant results. It takes mine a couple minutes to see the results of the valve adjustment. So I usually turn it a tiny bit and wait a minute and then continue Making adjustments
I'd maybe do a siphon and durso in ove overflow and a durso and a dry drain in the other.
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Sounds like a good plan. Food for thought...
* Herbie: Good idea to use gate valve for each main siphon as you are - I find it allows for better adjustments (than ball valves)
* I have a ball valve on my second/trickle stand pipe, but it's always fully open when running. I figured I could shut off if I need to remove. Nothing but union on my 3rd dry stand-by.
* Although you do want the two full siphon pipes to be low enough to keep a full siphon, keep in mind that it means more water will backflow to your sump when the return pump is off. Just keep that in mind and make sure your sump can support the volume of water. I went about 5" between my full siphon and second drain, FWIW
* With the DC pumps, you can't really have too much power since you can turn down. I've not used the (Jebao) DC-6000, but I'm running a Waveline DC-10000 II for return pump and have been happy with it. I believe the Jebao models came from the Waveline, so if they are alike, I think you'll be happy with it. Just make sure you get sufficient power given your implementation.
* Herbie: Good idea to use gate valve for each main siphon as you are - I find it allows for better adjustments (than ball valves)
* I have a ball valve on my second/trickle stand pipe, but it's always fully open when running. I figured I could shut off if I need to remove. Nothing but union on my 3rd dry stand-by.
* Although you do want the two full siphon pipes to be low enough to keep a full siphon, keep in mind that it means more water will backflow to your sump when the return pump is off. Just keep that in mind and make sure your sump can support the volume of water. I went about 5" between my full siphon and second drain, FWIW
* With the DC pumps, you can't really have too much power since you can turn down. I've not used the (Jebao) DC-6000, but I'm running a Waveline DC-10000 II for return pump and have been happy with it. I believe the Jebao models came from the Waveline, so if they are alike, I think you'll be happy with it. Just make sure you get sufficient power given your implementation.
The only thing I see with your idea for a sump is putting the full syphon I to the filter socks. Will make it a pain to change filter socks that's why why most people have a seperate little chamber to dump the syphon line into. Just something to think about 2 gate valves could be done but will be a pain
To make a dry line I would just raise the pipe to a higher level?
I figured it would be okay to have 2 gates with a DC pump so both can be adjusted. The DC-6000 is rated for 1585 GPH, and the 9000 is 2377 GPH. I can definitely get the 9000 if that would be better. It is looking like a 125g tank with a 55 sump probably 2/3 way filled.
@millerkid Could you elaborate on why dumping full siphon into socks would be bad? Just clogging or hard to change? The siphons will have strainers on them which will prevent some stuff from getting into it. My other option is another chamber with the water trickling into a sock? I saw the siphon draining into a sock on another sump on this site.
I also thought durso was a siphon as well? How do they differ?
http://gmacreef.com/herbie-overflow-reef-tank-plumbing-method-basics/ this is where I pulled the herbie stuff from if that helps!
Thanks everyone so far, I definitely feel like I am starting to grasp the concepts now.
I figured it would be okay to have 2 gates with a DC pump so both can be adjusted. The DC-6000 is rated for 1585 GPH, and the 9000 is 2377 GPH. I can definitely get the 9000 if that would be better. It is looking like a 125g tank with a 55 sump probably 2/3 way filled.
@millerkid Could you elaborate on why dumping full siphon into socks would be bad? Just clogging or hard to change? The siphons will have strainers on them which will prevent some stuff from getting into it. My other option is another chamber with the water trickling into a sock? I saw the siphon draining into a sock on another sump on this site.
I also thought durso was a siphon as well? How do they differ?
http://gmacreef.com/herbie-overflow-reef-tank-plumbing-method-basics/ this is where I pulled the herbie stuff from if that helps!
Thanks everyone so far, I definitely feel like I am starting to grasp the concepts now.
A durso stand pipe allows air to be mixed in with the water. It's called an open channel drain, it's basically the opposite of a full siphon. The benefit is that it's self regulating provided that you run anywhere between 0 and a few hundred gallons per hour. A siphon needs to "restart" after a power down to purge itself of air to run at it's optimal flow rate, a durso is incapable of running a siphon because it's vented, so it's always ready to go. Typically air being introduced into a standpipe makes a fair amount of noise. The down turned elbow and vent on top allow air and water to mix silently. Durso stand pipes flow less water than a siphon but are arguably the safest option. A plain verticle standpipe will just make alot of noise.
I see no reason not to put the sock under the siphon. Just shut your pumps off when you service the socks. I do my mechanical filtration maintenance during water changes while everything is shut off. Makes less of a mess that way.
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The Herbie approach Celestialsins referenced is what I have pointed folks to on occassion - I think it explains well. Done properly it is "dead silent", with the exception of the first minute or two when you start the sytem back up until it reachers a full siphon. I would also use a strainer at the tip if you decide to go with that approach to block out any potential (larger) plants and snails going down, etc...
Personally, I prefer all drains (with the exception of the dry stand-by drain) to go directly in the sock too - I think that's fine as I do that as well.
Personally, I prefer all drains (with the exception of the dry stand-by drain) to go directly in the sock too - I think that's fine as I do that as well.
True Herbie style is one full syphon one safety that means it would be submerged an inch below the filter sock correct?
Or do you submerge the sock 1 1/2 to leave room to allow for cleaning?
http://gmacreef.com/herbie-overflow-reef-tank-plumbing-method-basics/
Or do you submerge the sock 1 1/2 to leave room to allow for cleaning?
http://gmacreef.com/herbie-overflow-reef-tank-plumbing-method-basics/
Wasn't sure if this is addressed to me? Yes, Herbie is one full siphon, and a trickle standpipe. I also have a third completely dry stand-by (so more of Beananimal?). My primary and secondary drain pipes go down to the sump about 2-3 inches into each respective sock. The socks are about 1.5" below the water surface (I cannot adjust that). The pipes going into the socks are not glued to the bulkhead on the sump, so I just simply remove the pieces of pipe, then pull out my socks. I have been meaning to cut the pipes shorter, but may just keep as is since I can twist to remove the pipes to swap out socks. I don't change the sock from the second trickle drain that often.
