Table Salt OK For Marine Aquarium?

[ScatMan]

Any reason that you come on here claiming to know nothing but then talking down to everyone?

it's in your head, i'm not "talking down" to anyone (except to you, right now). i'm sorry that you think my asking of questions is somehow insulting.

You didn't hear what you wanted, sorry. Your not going to get anyone on here to recommend using plain salt.

i didn't come here to affirm any idea, i'm simply trying to understand something better. problem?

Marine salt is so expensive because it replicates the ocean protecting slime coats and promoting gill health for your fish. What your fish eats has limited effects on those things.

you have that absolutely backwards. http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=2115&page=1

did you come here just to cry and flame me (which is against tos) or did you come to have a conversation relevant to the thread?

 

[Purevil21]

I didn't flame anyone, you came on here reeking of arrogance while claiming ignorance. Your article said nothing about fish diet promoting gill and slime coat health, which are the two points I gave you. I did not say that what your fish eats has nothing to do with it's health. Diet has a lot to do with overall health, but its not everything. You asked for relevant conversation and got it. A fishes slime coat is its best defense against disease and a key to healthy slime coats is the quality of water the fish inhabits. Mother nature knows best, and the ocean is full of trace minerals for a reason. Simply throwing regular salt (Good luck finding salt without chemicals to reduce clumping) into water does not give the fish the best chance to thrive as it would in nature. You don't post in the marine section much, but I can tell you that attitudes like yours get you blackballed around here quickly. If you would care to tune down your attitude, you'll find plenty of members more than happy to help you.

 

[ScatMan]

I didn't flame anyone, you came on here reeking of arrogance while claiming ignorance.

like i said, it's in your head.

Your article said nothing about fish diet promoting gill and slime coat health, which are the two points I gave you.

nutrition IS health. the question you should be asking yourself is :what do fish need to produce a slime coat and where do they get it?

fish obviously have to absorb some nutrition to produce a slime coat. so, what are the sources of this nutrition and to what degree do they absorb this nutrition from the different sources? the answer to these questions are in the article i linked. you're not making a clear enough statement when you say, "ocean water promotes gill health and slime coat", you have to be more specific... what is it about ocean water that promotes slime coat and gill health?

I did not say that what your fish eats has nothing to do with it's health. Diet has a lot to do with overall health, but its not everything.

obviously diet isn't everything, some fish need salt in their water to live. i'm not saying that "diet is everything" nor did i say that you said "what your fish eats has nothing to do with it's health". it's a question of what the fish needs to absorb from the water. nutrients and trace elements are predominantly absorbed from the food that they eat, not their water, that info is in the article i linked.

You asked for relevant conversation and got it. A fishes slime coat is its best defense against disease and a key to healthy slime coats is the quality of water the fish inhabits.

prove it. prove that a lack of trace elements in the water has a detrimental effect to a fish's slime coat, show me that article.

Mother nature knows best, and the ocean is full of trace minerals for a reason.

there is no reason, it's simply there. some animals can exploit the nutrients in the water and some animals in that very same water do not. it's that simple.

(Good luck finding salt without chemicals to reduce clumping)

morton solar salt is sold at almost every big box store and supermarket in 50lb bags for about $5.00 +/-. it's 100% additive free and used as a water conditioner. no luck required!

Simply throwing regular salt -- into water does not give the fish the best chance to thrive as it would in nature.

we've already gotten past that thanks to oddball. the question now is: what's needs to be added to tap water at a minimum to keep marine fish healthy? i have a hunch that it might not be too complicated and is likely pretty cheap, certainly cheaper than 'instant ocean'. the following links show that the trace elements that people pay a high premium for are totally unnecessary for keeping marine fish, there are even people keeping corals in simple, cheap, diy home-brew salt mix with excellent results. enjoy.

http://www.marinebreeder.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=271

http://www.thereeftank.com/forums/f76/diy-salt-mix-98902.html

http://www.thereeftank.com/forums/f6/salt-124679.html

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1166963&perpage=25&pagenumber=1

You don't post in the marine section much, but I can tell you that attitudes like yours get you blackballed around here quickly. If you would care to tune down your attitude, you'll find plenty of members more than happy to help you.

again, it's in your head. also, i'm not asking for, nor do i appreciate, your kind of "help". i found the information i was looking for elsewhere.

 

[thechief]

If table salt was a viable alternative, no one would pay for the more expensive marine mixes. Marine mix is required for saltwater systems. The mixes contain sea salts (not mined salt), pH buffers, minerals, and trace elements as found on tropical reefs.

not trying to sound like a smart ass or anything here im just curious because im thinking of going salt myself what about sea salt that you use on foods thats the stuff i use on my food im sure it wouldnt work but it is sea salt

 

[ScatMan]

not trying to sound like a smart ass or anything here im just curious because im thinking of going salt myself what about sea salt that you use on foods thats the stuff i use on my food im sure it wouldnt work but it is sea salt

it's salt from the sea or ocean but it's almost pure sodium chloride (table salt). it's made from evaporating the water and the different minerals in the brine are separated from the salt.

 

[Otherone]

NaCl or pure sodium chloride is used in saltwater mixes - HOWEVER saltmixes do not contain an anti-caking agent Yellow Prussaite of Soda aka YPS or in it's dissolved form Prussic Acid salt used for human consumption does - this kills fish

If you can find table salt with no YPS or other additives you should be fine however the granual size of table salt is quite small and the overall cost to achieve complete saturation to get a stable salinity reading equal to natural seawater may very well be more than you'd expect.

Next issue would be the Alkyline elements added to seamixes - this doesn't just fuel corals it stabilizes PH to match that found in natural seawater. You'd have to add all the elements to your tablesalt anyways just to achieve the proper stable PH - driving the cost up even more.

Obviously - non- stable and low PH readings are very detrimental to fish.

 

[ScatMan]

yes it's more complicated than just adding sodium chloride (pure table salt), but not too complicated imo. it appears to me that if you can bake cookies, you can make suitable marine salt. all the necessary ingredients for the diy recipes i linked are dirt cheap and easy to find. one person calculated that it cost him less than $0.05 to make one gallon of saltwater with the diy mix, while it cost $0.25 (that's 5X more expensive) to make one gallon of 'instant ocean'.

 

[docturtle91b]

I agree that the makers of the salt mixes are probably making a killing profit wise. They are probably swimming in cash like scrooge mcduck. And I'm sure that plenty of people are successful using diy mixes. But we are just now beginning to understand the importance of trace elements in our own brain function. Who is to say which one of these tiny little chemicals is actually important to long term health? I'd rather not leave any out to test the theory and possibly cause damage to my fish. At this point in time I can't provide all the trace elements via a diy mix that instant ocean can. That is why I choose to use it.

 

[ScatMan]

^you might be missing my point; the fish get their trace elements predominantly from their food, not the water. adding it to the water seems to be a waste when they have a good food source.

people used to (and some still do) add iodine to their crustacean tanks because crustaceans need iodine to make their shells. it has been proven that even though they can absorb some iodine from the water, they are much better at absorbing it from their food. now, most crustacean keepers feed their pets iodine rich foods instead of wasting iodine in the water, with much better results.

 

[docturtle91b]

I fully understand your point. What I'm saying is why not supply the needed elements via both a good diet as well as an "element" rich solution? I think that Aristotle said something like "Nature does nothing uselessly". Those trace elements found in sea water have some importance to our fish. Even if we don't fully understand how. And even if you are right, and diy brews are better, I still would feel better erring on the side of caution until I know for certain what chemicals are and aren't important.