Take that Nitrate ;-) (6 week test)

[nfored]

Well I am acutally setup for a refugium, I have another tank as seen in this picture ready to be a refugium; I just need to buy another pump and lights. My thought is I can cover most of the top of the tank, and grow floating plants in the sump, and then start the refugium If needed. Some say this is alot to go through for one tank, but I say its never to much as long as you don't personally suffer.

The think I like about plants above the tank compared to in the tank is they don't need as much light to get the same growth, and never need co2.


The bottom of this tank is drilled, and sits about 2" above the top of the sump. I could pump water from the sump to this tank, and then drain it from this tank back into the sump. This tanks dimensions are 24x16x12, So I could grow some plants in here once the top of the tank is covered. Then If I still need more aquatic life I can Float some plants in the sump and toss a light on there too.



I really think that the true reward will come from breaking the cycle compared to trying to remove the nitrates. As mentioned before with having 20ppm out the tap I will be hard pressed to remove that much nitrate. Although I do fear that If I break the cycle and all the bio media goes dormant, then what happens if the pants suddenly dye. You see this in heavy planted tanks, a Mini cycle when to much plant mass is removed.

 

[knifegill]

Well, nitrates aren't your only enemy. I doubt plants have much use for all the metabolites we don't measure for, like fish hormones and who knows what else. Essential minerals are also depleted with time, costing you your buffering capacity. You'll still need to do water changes no matter how low you get your nitrates.

 

[Sab_Fan]

Although I do fear that If I break the cycle and all the bio media goes dormant, then what happens if the pants suddenly dye. You see this in heavy planted tanks, a Mini cycle when to much plant mass is removed.

FWIW, I eventually removed all bio-media from my filters; all I use are filter pads and purigen . . . yes, there will still be bacteria in my gravel bed, etc., but nothing external to the tank

plants feed on ammonia and nitrates, so this has worked very well for me . . . I have 5 planted tanks - - 5G, 12G, 15G, 30G and 90G - - and none of them ever has any ammonia, and nitrates are 10ppm or lower

plants also makes it easier to start-up new tanks; instead of cycling, I just make sure the tank has some plants in it from the get-go . . .

 

[knifegill]

FWIW, I eventually removed all bio-media from my filters; all I use are filter pads and purigen . . . yes, there will still be bacteria in my gravel bed, etc., but nothing external to the tank

plants feed on ammonia and nitrates, so this has worked very well for me . . . I have 5 planted tanks - - 5G, 12G, 15G, 30G and 90G - - and none of them ever has any ammonia, and nitrates are 10ppm or lower

plants also makes it easier to start-up new tanks; instead of cycling, I just make sure the tank has some plants in it from the get-go . . .

This frightens me.

 

[nfored]

Well, nitrates aren't your only enemy. I doubt plants have much use for all the metabolites we don't measure for, like fish hormones and who knows what else. Essential minerals are also depleted with time, costing you your buffering capacity. You'll still need to do water changes no matter how low you get your nitrates.

I know you meant well but you missed the point, the point is not and never was or will be to reduce or remove water changes. The point was only to keep the water as clean I humanly can, I plan to eventually filter down to single digit micron but this will take time and money. I look at my tanks like a never ending project, I also feel that I should always try to do the best for my fish that I possibly can do.



I don't know that I would be scared for say of a tank with plant only filtration. If the plants can filter it then its filtered, Can the plants die sure they can; but so can bacteria. Likely the plants will only die if there is a problem, likely you will notice the problem before all heck brakes. In that event you can do like we all do when there is a mini cycle and add prime every day until the issue is resolved. I had a mini cycle on my 220 I went out bought 250ml of prime and add it each day until it was done recycling.

 

[knifegill]

I know you meant well but you missed the point, the point is not and never was or will be to reduce or remove water changes. The point was only to keep the water as clean I humanly can, I plan to eventually filter down to single digit micron but this will take time and money. I look at my tanks like a never ending project, I also feel that I should always try to do the best for my fish that I possibly can do.

Right on. I didn't mean to assert that your goal was the reduction of water changes. My bad. And I hope you attain your goals.

I don't know that I would be scared for say of a tank with plant only filtration. If the plants can filter it then its filtered, Can the plants die sure they can; but so can bacteria. Likely the plants will only die if there is a problem, likely you will notice the problem before all heck brakes. In that event you can do like we all do when there is a mini cycle and add prime every day until the issue is resolved. I had a mini cycle on my 220 I went out bought 250ml of prime and add it each day until it was done recycling.

The problem, as I understand it, is that one Oscar would need something like five pounds of active plant cells to keep his water clean. But those cells would also be depleting essential minerals that he needs in the water column to build tissues and maintain a healthy skeleton, buffer the water, etc. And the amount of plants needed to keep his water clean is too high a number to keep adequate mineralization. But that's what I've been believing. If it's not true, I'd love to know better.

On the side, when I added pothos to my filter box, my Oscar got HITH. There weren't many other factors involved. Just saying.

 

[nfored]

Right on. I didn't mean to assert that your goal was the reduction of water changes. My bad. And I hope you attain your goals.

The problem, as I understand it, is that one Oscar would need something like five pounds of active plant cells to keep his water clean. But those cells would also be depleting essential minerals that he needs in the water column to build tissues and maintain a healthy skeleton, buffer the water, etc. And the amount of plants needed to keep his water clean is too high a number to keep adequate mineralization. But that's what I've been believing. If it's not true, I'd love to know better.

On the side, when I added pothos to my filter box, my Oscar got HITH. There weren't many other factors involved. Just saying.

I actually have been adding plants in fear that high nitrates was linked as being a key factor in hith. Man now I am worried about this, where yours in the water or just root submerged like mine? Although I guess it wouldn't matter, any one else have experience with this want to chime in?

I was aware that in reality its almost impossible to have a MFK stocked tank with plants as the filter since it would require such high bio mass that the fish wouldn't have room. I have never heard of the plants taking up to much of minerals I would really like to hear more input on this also.

If this experiment, works regardless of it take 6 weeks or 20 weeks, I had planned to buy a high powered pump, and pump water up to my sun room pictured here. The sun room has windows covering 3 of the 4 sides. I would then put planters in all the window seals and grow plants in them using the water from the sump. This way when I get my next monster tank I can have a very high plant bio load.

 

[Sab_Fan]

This frightens me.

why? because you don't understand it?

to be fair, it was a big step for me when I decided to try it . . . I started with my 90G and gradually reduced the amount of external bio-media, over a period of several months. at each point, my nitrates would not increase, but would in fact decrease . . . I have now run my tanks for years w/o external bio-media, and no nitrate problems whatsoever

I still do W/C to remove other dissolved compounds and to put in new water, but this method, in my mind, has proven it's effectiveness . . . again, as long as you have fish that tolerate plants

 

[knifegill]

Quote:
Originally Posted by knifegill
This frightens me.

why? because you don't understand it?

Yep. That is the only reason why. I can see it working for a lightly stocked tank. But this tank is pretty well full, right? I'm glad it's working for you. I just don't think I'm ready to take that step yet. Got me thinking though. Would save $$ if I stuck to low light species.

 

[Sab_Fan]

Yep. That is the only reason why. I can see it working for a lightly stocked tank. But this tank is pretty well full, right? I'm glad it's working for you. I just don't think I'm ready to take that step yet. Got me thinking though. Would save $$ if I stuck to low light species.

I really do agree with you, it is a difficult step to take . . .

my tanks are not lightly stocked, although I wouldn't cop to being over-stocked either . . . I keep mainly small to medium size cichlids (ports, carpintis, gymnos, convicts, rams) . . . there are also typical planted tank fishes, like SAEs, small plecos, and otocinclus

I keep low-light plants like java ferns, anubias, crypts and swords . . . these are also plants cichlids won't be too hard on

I'm sure there is a sweet-spot in terms of fish-to-plant-to-tank ratios, but I'm not detailed enough to know where that is; I just monitor the tanks and maintain whatever seems to be working