Tank 2.0 RUGF/Pressure system

[dawnmarie]

Hmm...My current UGF setup is 1/2 my new plan(one pump/one canister) drains from the bottom of the tank and returns to the top of the tank.The pump is rated @ 1050 GPH. Installed in my current setup w/ 3' head height and two canister filters it actually pumps 950GPH at the return at the top of the tank.
The sticky on pipe size and flow gives lots of information on gravity drains but does not address calculated head pressures.
Pump manufacturers list GPH@ X height with no reference to the volume or sizing of the pipe.
I was careful to size the drain to provide gravity powered GPH in excess of the pump capacity so as to maximize the potential of the pump.
If the return pipe/RUGF is sized to adequately flow the capacity of the pump(s) would I not still calculate maximum head pressure as the vertical distance betweem the outlet of the pump and the surface of the water in the tank ? What am I missing ?

 

[JakeH]

Head pressure stated by the mfr. will be straight pipe with no obstructions. You plan to put some serious obstructions in the way of that pump.

Draining from the bottom & returning to the top as you have it now only throws one wrench in the head pressure equation: the canister. Your pump is very powerful, so I'm sure you're still getting around 900gph even with the canister in there, but it is certainly still less than the mfr's head chart would imply. Doubling this system shouldn't be an issue, but if you're adding under gravel returns I would expect your actual head pressure to be significantly higher...

 

[dawnmarie]

Head pressure stated by the mfr. will be straight pipe with no obstructions. You plan to put some serious obstructions in the way of that pump.

Draining from the bottom & returning to the top as you have it now only throws one wrench in the head pressure equation: the canister. Your pump is very powerful, so I'm sure you're still getting around 900gph even with the canister in there, but it is certainly still less than the mfr's head chart would imply. Doubling this system shouldn't be an issue, but if you're adding under gravel returns I would expect your actual head pressure to be significantly higher...

I value your imput and i'm OK with everything you say right up to there.

if you're adding under gravel returns I would expect your actual head pressure to be significantly higher.

Are the "serious obstructions" the location of the return,the weight of 23" of water depth at the outlet, the gravel, the length of pipe in the RUGF ?

The pump mfr's chart says I should get 990 GPH @ 3" of head.
In my current setup ,with new cartridges, I get a strong 950 GPH at the return in the tank measured with a calibrated 5 gallon bucket and a stop watch.This is a loss of 40 GPH tha can be attributed to the filter.
If as you say I an going to see a significant decrease, in addition to this, I am failing to understand "Why".
I'm certainly not saying you are wrong , I just want to understand why.

 

[JakeH]

I value your imput and i'm OK with everything you say right up to there.
Are the "serious obstructions" the location of the return,the weight of 23" of water depth at the outlet, the gravel, the length of pipe in the RUGF ?

The pump mfr's chart says I should get 990 GPH @ 3" of head.
In my current setup ,with new cartridges, I get a strong 950 GPH at the return in the tank measured with a calibrated 5 gallon bucket and a stop watch.This is a loss of 40 GPH tha can be attributed to the filter.
If as you say I an going to see a significant decrease, in addition to this, I am failing to understand "Why".
I'm certainly not saying you are wrong , I just want to understand why.

To answer your first question, all of those factors you listed will increase your head pressure. The chart for your pump lists head height, not head pressure. They have no way of knowing what your going to put in front of that pump to increase head pressure, so they list unobstructed flow rates (straight vertical pipe) & call it head height. Its up to you to adjust your setup to account for the flow rates after that. Again, I'm sure it will work, but you may not have the 1800gph you expected.

I didn't realize you had actually measured your current flow rate. You made it sound like you were just going off the mfr chart, so you may be closer than I thought... If you know you're getting 950gph now from each pump (with canister) totaling 1900gph, my guess is you will still have over 1500gph after you add all the RUGF piping/pressure. Thats purely a guess, though. You'll just have to measure it & see.

 

[dawnmarie]

my guess is you will still have over 1500gph after you add all the RUGF piping/pressure. Thats purely a guess, though. You'll just have to measure it & see.

If I only get 1500 GPH I can live with that. The reason for adding a second pump was less for increased turnover and more for redundancy. My WAG is still closer to 1800 but as you say the only way to know for sure is to build it and get an actual measurement.
It has been my experience with pump manufacturers, that the less technical information they make available the less likely they are to live up to their performance claims.

OK, Thanks to JakeH and others for your imput , I had hoped for more imput from this forum but if that's it then it's time to shoot the engineer and put this into production. Anyone in Northern California with a 100 or 125 long for sale or rent ? I need temporary housing for 45 or so Mbuna.

 

[tcarswell]

That is awesome . Well thought out sir. I always thought about recommending switching your old setup to a RUGF but it seemed to work so damn well. Glad to see your moving up man. Looks great.

 

[dawnmarie]

Were your ears burning ? I just PM'd you like two minutes ago. Of course it took me 10 minutes to type it with two fingers. Good to hear from you.

 

[cchhcc]

How set are you on using your existing equipment?

 

[dawnmarie]

It's not set in stone. I am leaning away from a sump setup due to physical constraints of the stand(poor design),Room size and exterior location of equipment.
I also experience regular power outages and even with a backup generator a sump worries me. I started with a UGF and Whole house filters and wouldn't be changing anything(except the filters) save for imput from Chompers on RUGF's and the potential for reducing or eliminating Gravel Vacuuming. That and a 24/7 water changer and I think I am close to a foolproof system. I happen to have 2- Ocean Clear 325's in stock and they look to be an improvement over my Whole house filters. I already have 2- Little Giant MD 5-SC pumps and have seen no evidence that there is a more dependable , robust pump on the market. Beyond than that I'm open to ideas

 

[cchhcc]

What concerns you about sumps and power outages?

Also, have you had any experience with Sequence pumps or Aqua UV filters?